SPOILER_ Damien Harahap

Zipwitch wrote:I created an account specifically to post on Harahap and his killer nanites or lack therof. And then I see there's a whole thread about him, and them.

< snip >

WeirdlyWired wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:This latter doesn't seem to be something that could happen to Harahap. It's got to be something that would lie latent for a long time, which means it's got to have a fairly sophisticated profile.

In CoG, Victor captures the undercover security guy, Lajos Irvine, who dies because his nanites didn't get the radio signal to stay dormant. don't recall that they were DNA specific like the suicide nanites (or that they weren't for that matter.

Cauldron of Ghosts, Chapter 56 wrote:“What’s going on?” asked Lajos Irvine. “I heard—well, more like felt—what seemed like explosions nearby.”
Victor Cachat shook his head. “They weren’t nearby. The reason you felt them is because they were nuclear detonations. Half a dozen of them, all told. The news media are reporting casualties—most of them fatalities—in the tens of thousands.”
He paused for a moment and gave Lajos that frightening level stare. “They’re saying the detonations are being done by Ballroom terrorists. But that’s ridiculous—and you know it as well as I do. What I think is happening is that your Alignment is pulling everyone off the planet and covering their tracks. And if that requires mass murder, so be it.”
Lajos felt an urge to protest against the accusation, but he said nothing. He was pretty sure Cachat was right. And if he was . . .
Then why hadn’t anyone told Lajos himself about an evacuation? The only answer he could think of that made any sense—
And it did make sense. He rose to his feet. “It’s an onion,” he said. “It’s always an onion. And it seems I’m not—”
The sensation was a curious one. Disorienting more than frightening. But he wouldn’t have had more than a few seconds to be frightened anyway.
*********
Cachat caught him as he slumped, and was able to keep his head from being injured. But it didn’t matter. The man was unconscious within seconds and died not long thereafter. A massive stroke; perhaps; but it was more likely to have been a pulmonary embolism—or something that mimicked it, anyway. The prisoner’s mouth was coated in foam and he’d suffered massive and complete incontinence. If Victor remembered correctly, those were often symptoms of the condition.
Even if a medical regeneration unit had been immediately available he probably couldn’t have saved the prisoner. But the few such units in their possession had already been moved to more secure locations underground. He could never have gotten the man into one in time.
Callie Patwary and her former gang partner Teddy came into the cell. They must have heard something.
Victor straightened up from his examination of the corpse lying on the floor. “When was the last time you saw him alive?”
Callie nodded her head in the direction of her former gang partner. “Teddy checked in on him about two hours ago.”
“He seemed fine,” Teddy insisted. “We didn’t speak to each other when I brought him breakfast, but he looked at me and didn’t seem sick or anything.” He sounded nervous, as if he were worried that Victor would blame him for the prisoner’s death and . . .
Do . . . something.
Victor found the reaction irritating, but he was used to it. He didn’t quite understand why, but he knew from experience that a lot of people found him frightening. As if he might kill or injure someone for no reason. A notion which he found ridiculous, but . . . there it was.
“Not your fault, Teddy,” he said. “If it’s anyone’s, it’s mine. I was being circumspect in my questioning of him because I was pretty sure he had a built-in suicide program that would be triggered off by anything too overt. Apparently, I wasn’t circumspect enough. Or he just got too excited and triggered it himself.”
“Could you have done anything to prevent it?” asked Callie.
“Not if it was well-designed—which I’m sure it was. The people he worked for are ruthless.”

Vince wrote:Actually the nanites killed Lajos at the precise moment that Lajos decided to spill the beans and attempted to tell Cachat about the Onion.
-snipped book quote for brevity-
What do you think are the odds of the nanites activating due to not receiving their ping at precisely the time Lajos attempts to confess, given how ruthless the Mesan Alignment is (keep in mind that Lajos was a Mesan Alignment gamma line, and had previously distinguished himself to the Alignment in Torch of Freedom)?

Once is coincidence, twice is happenstance, three times is enemy action

Somtaaw wrote:

Vince wrote:Actually the nanites killed Lajos at the precise moment that Lajos decided to spill the beans and attempted to tell Cachat about the Onion.
-snipped book quote for brevity-
What do you think are the odds of the nanites activating due to not receiving their ping at precisely the time Lajos attempts to confess, given how ruthless the Mesan Alignment is (keep in mind that Lajos was a Mesan Alignment gamma line, and had previously distinguished himself to the Alignment in Torch of Freedom)?

I think it's certainly possible, he didn't really say anything after all. And it wasn't the phrase, because the MacBryde brothers offered and discussed onions in their sandwiches constantly [drove their mother berserk, because polite people don't offer each other onions apparently].

And emotionally, he hadn't really shifted to something that a generic program could examine and suddenly decide "he must be spilling the secrets that cannot be spilled.... KILL HIM!"

It's just one of those happy coincidences, that if we use the quote from, I think the Prince Roger We Few

Once is coincidence, twice is happenstance, three times is enemy action

Vince wrote:

Somtaaw wrote:I think it's certainly possible, he didn't really say anything after all. And it wasn't the phrase, because the MacBryde brothers offered and discussed onions in their sandwiches constantly [drove their mother berserk, because polite people don't offer each other onions apparently].

And emotionally, he hadn't really shifted to something that a generic program could examine and suddenly decide "he must be spilling the secrets that cannot be spilled.... KILL HIM!"

It's just one of those happy coincidences, that if we use the quote from, I think the Prince Roger We Few

But what are the odds of it being a coincidence? And the Prince Roger book quote is about improbable things happening in real life (which occasionally do happen), but the Honorverse is fiction (and a fiction writer almost never has improbable things happen, because it risks breaking the willing suspension of belief of the reader--unless they are using a trope that relies on it, like the cavalry coming over the hill in the nick of time).

History, in contrast to fiction, does have examples of improbable things happening, but history readers don't suspend their belief before reading history.

March to the Stars, end of Ch 25, beginning of 26 wrote:"Well, since you put it that way," she replied, and slid down into the water and leaned forward to kiss him.
"Your Highness," Bebi said, leaning in the door. "Captain Pahner's compliments, and he'd like to see you in his quarters."
"I think I'm beginning to detect a pattern here," Roger snarled under his breath.
"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action," Despreaux replied huskily. "So far, it's just coincidence."
"So far," Roger replied. "But I have to wonder."

Ch 26
"You are a cruel human, Adib Julian," Kosutic said.
"It's an art," he replied, tapping the pad. "Despreaux's blood pressure and heart beat both increase, they're having an argument. Heart beat increases, and blood pressure drops, and they're . . . not."

Vince wrote:...What do you think are the odds of the nanites activating due to not receiving their ping at precisely the time Lajos attempts to confess, given how ruthless the Mesan Alignment is (keep in mind that Lajos was a Mesan Alignment gamma line, and had previously distinguished himself to the Alignment in Torch of Freedom)? [cut,paste]Then why hadn’t anyone told Lajos himself about an evacuation? The only answer he could think of that made any sense—
And it did make sense. He rose to his feet. “It’s an onion,” he said. “It’s always an onion. And it seems I’m not—”

WeirdlyWired wrote:He didn't know anything except Isabel Bardassano and Collin Detweiler.

Michael Everett wrote:

WeirdlyWired wrote:He didn't know anything except Isabel Bardassano and Collin Detweiler.

Bolding mine.
The Detweilers carefully arranged it so that the entire galaxy thinks that they're dead. Just having someone say that they're not, combined with their Early Mesa history and the reputation that their family had would be enough to trigger a massive witch-hunt for them.
And they know this.
Had Lajos tried to tell Cachat about the Detweiler family still being alive, the nanites would have activated as soon as he made the decision. After all, the Detweilers want the universe to believe that they're extinct right up to the point that they can declare "checkmate" on the universe and sweep the board.

But it's more likely that he was going to say something about the Mesan Alignment to Cachat, which would still be enough to trigger the suicide protocols.