Nativization of Forces

Randomiser wrote:Unless Sharleyan really drops the ball, which is hard to do when you've got SNARC surveillance on the ring-leaders, she won't need anything like the 20,000 troops she has on Chisholm to collar them. She can't need lots of troops unless the nobles have recruited and armed large forces of their own or they have a large 'popular uprising.' Beginning to buy those arms or recruit those troops or recruit organisers for such an uprising are all clearly treason, so once they begin the actual process she has the evidence she needs to arrest them. That's why she is so sanguine about the whole business.

Yep.

One of my questions has been what the noble idiots plan to use for manpower, and another was what they have as weapons. I don't seem them getting their hands on modern rifles or artillery. About the best they could manage would be an attempt to secede from the rest of Chisholm and say "Don't like it? Come and get us!", in blissful ignorance of what will happen to them if they do.

They won't have very long to actually learn from their mistakes, but if they haven't already learned, it's unlikely they can.
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Dennis

DMcCunney wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Unless Sharleyan really drops the ball, which is hard to do when you've got SNARC surveillance on the ring-leaders, she won't need anything like the 20,000 troops she has on Chisholm to collar them. She can't need lots of troops unless the nobles have recruited and armed large forces of their own or they have a large 'popular uprising.' Beginning to buy those arms or recruit those troops or recruit organisers for such an uprising are all clearly treason, so once they begin the actual process she has the evidence she needs to arrest them. That's why she is so sanguine about the whole business.

Yep.

One of my questions has been what the noble idiots plan to use for manpower, and another was what they have as weapons. I don't seem them getting their hands on modern rifles or artillery. About the best they could manage would be an attempt to secede from the rest of Chisholm and say "Don't like it? Come and get us!", in blissful ignorance of what will happen to them if they do.

They won't have very long to actually learn from their mistakes, but if they haven't already learned, it's unlikely they can.
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Dennis

I would guess that this would be equally apparent to the malcontents. I think one of the things that Sharleyan's protection team needs to keep an eye out for is attempted assassination or kidnapping. I would rate it a low probability, because anyone with more brains than a gnat should take into account what Cayleb and his army are likely to do in return, but if they are that idiotic, they might just try it.
.

Peter2 wrote:

DMcCunney wrote:One of my questions has been what the noble idiots plan to use for manpower, and another was what they have as weapons. I don't seem them getting their hands on modern rifles or artillery. About the best they could manage would be an attempt to secede from the rest of Chisholm and say "Don't like it? Come and get us!", in blissful ignorance of what will happen to them if they do.

They won't have very long to actually learn from their mistakes, but if they haven't already learned, it's unlikely they can.

I would guess that this would be equally apparent to the malcontents.

See above about inability to learn.

I think one of the things that Sharleyan's protection team needs to keep an eye out for is attempted assassination or kidnapping. I would rate it a low probability, because anyone with more brains than a gnat should take into account what Cayleb and his army are likely to do in return, but if they are that idiotic, they might just try it.

You assume they have the brains of a gnat?

Since they've managed to remain disconnected from reality through the reign of Sharleyan as Queen of Chisholm before she became Empress of Charis, I assume they wouldn't wear matching socks without the assistance of valets.
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Dennis

Ah! I think that the prevailing assumption has been that any Corisandeans involved would already be in Chishom, having re-upped in the ICA and been sent there for training. [this particular discussion stretches over several threads and a couple of years]

So it's not a matter of calling them in for the duty, but using some already on hand. Whence my point about the meaning of imperial citizenship.

DMcCunney wrote:< snip >

And timing would be a consideration. How long would it take to assemble a Corisandian force to provide such assistance and get them to Chisholm? Would she have the time if the ball dropped and her noble idiots made their move? She might well have to put in the call to Corisande to assemble the forces and get them en route rather before her idiots actually made their move, which opens its own can of worms.

Indeed. My assumption concurs with yours Louis.

The big question to me is if Sharleyan will allow the newly trained ICA formations to be sent to Siddrmark before the new trainees arrive. That sort of gap may be what the rebels are looking for. That sort of gap may also be what Sharleyan uses to force their hand at a time of HER choosing. My guess would be a combination of misinformation and such a gap. Announce that the timing would result in a gap, but actually plan for the gap to be much smaller than announced.

If the new trainees contain Koryn's ex Corisandian Army perconnel, that may just be the added surprise Sharleyan needs to gather all the rebels in one swell foop.

Awaiting with rapturous anticipation to get the answer.

Louis R wrote:Ah! I think that the prevailing assumption has been that any Corisandeans involved would already be in Chishom, having re-upped in the ICA and been sent there for training. [this particular discussion stretches over several threads and a couple of years]

So it's not a matter of calling them in for the duty, but using some already on hand. Whence my point about the meaning of imperial citizenship.

DMcCunney wrote:< snip >

And timing would be a consideration. How long would it take to assemble a Corisandian force to provide such assistance and get them to Chisholm? Would she have the time if the ball dropped and her noble idiots made their move? She might well have to put in the call to Corisande to assemble the forces and get them en route rather before her idiots actually made their move, which opens its own can of worms.

PeterZ wrote:Indeed. My assumption concurs with yours Louis.

The big question to me is if Sharleyan will allow the newly trained ICA formations to be sent to Siddrmark before the new trainees arrive. That sort of gap may be what the rebels are looking for. That sort of gap may also be what Sharleyan uses to force their hand at a time of HER choosing. My guess would be a combination of misinformation and such a gap. Announce that the timing would result in a gap, but actually plan for the gap to be much smaller than announced.

This seems to assume there are training classes with common start dates. I find that unlikely. Recruitment and training are likely to be ongoing, so when a batch get deployed will be a matter of when a sufficient number are ready. If people volunteer, you don't make them sit on their hands till a new class starts.

If the new trainees contain Koryn's ex Corisandian Army perconnel, that may just be the added surprise Sharleyan needs to gather all the rebels in one swell foop.

As of HFQ, Nimue apologized for being late to a virtual meeting because Anvil Rock, Tartarian, and Koryn were finalizing details for incorporation of Corisandian forces into the EoC military. After the details have been worked out, there's still the issue of recruitment, and how many of the former Corisandian Army folks demobbed after Charis invaded will volunteer. I kind of doubt any significant number have actually been sent to Chisholm for retraining in the new tactics and weapons just yet.

If the noble idiots delay long enough, that's subject to change.
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Dennis

Well, Dennis, I recall Sharleyan stating that the current forces being trained are scheduled to leave for the summer's campaign. That implies new formations would arrive to replace them after those troops leave for Siddermark. Since this batch of trainees would place the number of ICA troops to be between 750k-1M, the new batch of recruits might just be smaller than the current batch finishing their training.

I further recall that the rebels are waiting for the current trainees to complete their training and ship out before they move. Well, that's the Inner Circle's view anyway. If Sharleyan knows this is their likely plan, I suspect she is planning to stack the deck as much as possible and insert some surprises of her own. Timing and selected recruits come to mind as the easiest way to slip in more and better forces than the rebels are accounting for.

DMcCunney wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Indeed. My assumption concurs with yours Louis.

The big question to me is if Sharleyan will allow the newly trained ICA formations to be sent to Siddrmark before the new trainees arrive. That sort of gap may be what the rebels are looking for. That sort of gap may also be what Sharleyan uses to force their hand at a time of HER choosing. My guess would be a combination of misinformation and such a gap. Announce that the timing would result in a gap, but actually plan for the gap to be much smaller than announced.

This seems to assume there are training classes with common start dates. I find that unlikely. Recruitment and training are likely to be ongoing, so when a batch get deployed will be a matter of when a sufficient number are ready. If people volunteer, you don't make them sit on their hands till a new class starts.

If the new trainees contain Koryn's ex Corisandian Army perconnel, that may just be the added surprise Sharleyan needs to gather all the rebels in one swell foop.

As of HFQ, Nimue apologized for being late to a virtual meeting because Anvil Rock, Tartarian, and Koryn were finalizing details for incorporation of Corisandian forces into the EoC military. After the details have been worked out, there's still the issue of recruitment, and how many of the former Corisandian Army folks demobbed after Charis invaded will volunteer. I kind of doubt any significant number have actually been sent to Chisholm for retraining in the new tactics and weapons just yet.

If the noble idiots delay long enough, that's subject to change.
_______
Dennis

I have shared the concern about using Corisande troops in Chisholm precisely because of Chisholm's concern about Corisande's medaling in Chisholm's affairs, including what happened to King Sailys. Having a shiny new empire doesn't magically make that go away.

Still, my concern might be unfounded. It might work out fine. But I would think that some of those Zebedians who are so enthusiastically enlisting might be more suitable for the role.

I strongly suspect that Sharleyan's problem nobles have not fully grasped the implications of the new weapons... That could turn out unfortunate... for them!

Don

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n7axw wrote:Still, my concern might be unfounded. It might work out fine. But I would think that some of those Zebedians who are so enthusiastically enlisting might be more suitable for the role.

The best option is probably a "Imperial Guard" or "Imperial Police" establishment recruited from every segment of the Empire. Second best would be to retain a company or two of purely Chisholmian ethnicity from the training command.

Using any troops from any single segment other than Chisholm is going to be seen/spun as "foreign interference" by the rebels. At least a mixed force can be presented as a unified front by the rest of the empire against the parochial interests of the rebel nobles.

What forces are used to capture the traitors, will only really matter if public opinion becomes a factor. (Public opinion among the nobles that is, we already know what the Commons are going to think of a noble rebellion against Sharleyan.) That will only be true if it becomes an extended fight, given the slow rate of news dispersal on Safehold, since the government will control the semaphore outside of rebellious areas. If it is a quick strike that ends with the traitors in the bag, any troops will do.

This time however the outcome needs to be different. The traitors should be attainted, i.e their titles, property and wealth confiscated by the crown, as was done with Grand Duke Zebediah, pour encourager les autres. Also so they don't repeat the problems they are currently experiencing with the widow and heir of one of the last lot.