"Obsolete SDs" Waste not...

kenl511 wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:As stated by others, dead horse dead horse -- but the one thing we didn't shoot down too terribly hard... was likely a gradually ferrying of the things to Meyers to become an SDF force over a period of time. Our assumption is that there's no reason nor yards available not needed for building better craft -- and that the House of Thomas could do a Grayson and turn the old SD('s) into at least moderate system protectrate/SDF ships by upgrading their compensators, CM capabilities, EW suite, and tractor as many pods as possible to their hulls.

Maybe there would be an interior jury rig that would make them effective CM platforms with vast quantities of CM's available, but that's about it.

Once their yards are up to GA tech levels and Meyers is turning out things at the level of say Sag-C's, etc. the repurposed SD's would then be sold to "Verge sector navies" /rinse/lather/repeat as those sectors stabilize, etc.

...but still a dead horse...

why is this thread still active?

This one, the next one, it really doesn't matter.

Someone is going to start a post on the subject regularly. If this one is still in place, then they won't start a new one.

We've seen freighters modified with weapons to deal with piracy, so I wonder how hard it would be to strip out most of the weapons and add concealed cargo hatches to those Solarian SDs to use them in Silisia to haul freight?

RedBaron wrote:We've seen freighters modified with weapons to deal with piracy, so I wonder how hard it would be to strip out most of the weapons and add concealed cargo hatches to those Solarian SDs to use them in Silisia to haul freight?

I'd guess that even the smallest cargo ship can transport more cargo than an SD. And an SD is built to be as tough as possible, so how easy will it be strip it do you think?

On top of that, where are you going to find a crew of a couple of thousands to keep the ship running (compared to a handful for a dedicated cargo ship)?

So your suggestions falls flat (and it has been suggested before), since there is no economic sense whatsoever at all using SD's to transport goods.

RedBaron wrote:We've seen freighters modified with weapons to deal with piracy, so I wonder how hard it would be to strip out most of the weapons and add concealed cargo hatches to those Solarian SDs to use them in Silisia to haul freight?

Joat already dealt with this, but consider the following: A freighter is, essentially, the least amount of infrastructure required to haul a given volume of freight. The hull is as thin as it possibly can be, the internal infrastructure is as clean and sparse as it can be, and everything is optimized to handle standardized cargo containers as efficiently as possible.

An SD is the opposite of this. Not only are their hulls meters thick, they are also crammed with stuff: Weapons systems, magazines, more armor, crew spaces, and the odd cargo hold or two to hold consumables. Removing the things from an SD that can be removed to make room for cargo just doesn't free up enough cargo space to make it a worthwhile freighter; If you compare the economics of gutting an SD, rebuilding it as a freighter and running it as one to the economics of using a standard freighter and assigning it an escort, the SD comes woefully short.

My turn, gimme that riding crop Ok, all the construction platforms and docks were destroyed in Oyster Bay. Tractor some hulls together and use them for the keels of the new platforms. I mean if people insist on not scrapping them. pour a little ceramacrete over the tops and fire it. Guess you could use the reactors for power. (ducks the rotten tomatoes)

Ok, there has to be some way to use them other than scrapping.

Has anyone ever created detailed drawings of an SD?

RedBaron wrote:Ok, there has to be some way to use them other than scrapping.

Has anyone ever created detailed drawings of an SD?

They can't be that different from the GA's versions except for some fiddling with size. The hull is probably stable, but as everyone has said, " it costs way too much to do anything with it. Somewhere in Manticore Ascendant, they cut a BC in half to make 2 sloops. Cheaper in the end to just build 2new slops from scratch, including the cost of importing nodes and reactors. They are manpower intensive, and obsolete by first Havenite war.

They could probably ease them to the planet and scuttle them to make artificial reefs in some ocean somewhere.

RedBaron wrote:Ok, there has to be some way to use them other than scrapping.

Has anyone ever created detailed drawings of an SD?

Oh, you can use them. As Scarecrow on steroids, for example. You know, similiar to Ace-King in Texas Hold'em Poker: Looks really good, but looses more often than not. There's a reason such a card-combination is known as "Anna Kurnikova" ...

No, aside scrapping there are only 3 practical uses for these deathtraps I can think of:
a) Museum for the war against the Solarian League (1 vessel)
b) Training for Mantie Marines (maintain communication discipline while boarding a hostile vessel) - 1 or 2 vessels - (see MoH)
c) Targets for practice shootings - the rest of them.

Eagleeye wrote:Oh, you can use them. As Scarecrow on steroids, for example. You know, similiar to Ace-King in Texas Hold'em Poker: Looks really good, but looses more often than not. There's a reason such a card-combination is known as "Anna Kurnikova" ...

No, aside scrapping there are only 3 practical uses for these deathtraps I can think of:
a) Museum for the war against the Solarian League (1 vessel)
b) Training for Mantie Marines (maintain communication discipline while boarding a hostile vessel) - 1 or 2 vessels - (see MoH)
c) Targets for practice shootings - the rest of them.

You forgot selling them to star nations breaking away from the League

RedBaron wrote:Ok, there has to be some way to use them other than scrapping.

There are a few, as shown above. However, none of the feasible roles for them involve being used as active service vessels by the Grand Alliance (whether in frontline service or in some other role), and all proposals that involve rebuilding these ships has to pass one simple test: Is this rebuild going to be more efficient (in terms of manpower spent doing it as opposed to rebuilding Manticoran or Grayson infrastructure) than building whatever it is you want to use these ships for from scratch? Be aware that everything from makeshift freighters, to makeshift hospital ships, to makeshift schools has been proposed and every single one of these proposals has failed the test.

WeirdlyWired wrote:My turn, gimme that riding crop Ok, all the construction platforms and docks were destroyed in Oyster Bay. Tractor some hulls together and use them for the keels of the new platforms. I mean if people insist on not scrapping them. pour a little ceramacrete over the tops and fire it. Guess you could use the reactors for power. (ducks the rotten tomatoes)

This has been mentioned before and was one of the better solutions. However, it too has major issues.

1) The ships are 100 years old and have major maintenance issues, including a lack of basic maintenance. The Scientists are a 250 year old design and the average ship is 125 years old. the reactors themselves are several levels less efficient than a modern Manticorian design AND have high levels of use.

All the ships just went through a battle where most ships were hit in some way. Any hit can cause feedbacks in the electrical system, causing issues with the reactors.

And no docks or repair crews are available to asses each ship thoroughly and verify that these issues do not exist.

2) Every aspect of an SD is manpower intensive. Each Fusion plant, all 5-6 of them, are thoroughly spread throughout the ship, and require a large watch crew and repair crew. to keep the crew in there, you need to run lifesupport, not just in the reactor spaces, but in most of the ship so the crews can move to the reactors from the boat bays and spare parts bins - which requires a crew to run the several redundant life support systems AND repair crews of the parts when they break. In addition, you need to run at least one boat bay, so people can go to and from the ship. You probably also need a crew in Damage control for safety reasons and to monitor ship power issues. And you probably need a helm watch on the bridge for orbital control and techs to watch and repair the thrusters.

In short, you probably need several 100 people just to run the reactors short term - per watch rotation. Compare this to a 40 man crew on a freighter with a single reactor. Or an "unmanned" solar satellite (which probably still has a ground crew and repair crew assigned to it).

3) To move one of these ships, a skeleton crew is in the 100 person range. Just to get one of these ships where ever you need it, you will need to get a large ferry crew to get it there.

If you had one of these laying around, and you needed power for your construction project - sure, trash a maintenance hatch or missile tube and run power conduits through it and light up your life. But as soon as your project has it's designed power source running, unplug the SD and send it away, because a purpose built power supply is going to cost you less to run and give you fewer maintenance headaches than using an old Solarian SD.

And why not use them in Manticorian Space for the rebuild, even temporarily? Well, why would you use a 125 year old, unknown Solarian ship for it when you have a running, 15 year old Gryphon you just put in storage that you know works properly, has a known maintenance history, and you have crews trained on it's use and maintenance? You can do the same thing temporarily, and not have to worry about issue #1 above.