Saram Bay

lyonheart wrote:Snip

Vastly more important than whipping the poor troops left behind and running off the local aristocracy and any inquisitors they can catch, ie destroying the power and credibility of the traditional authorities, would be the encouragement and protection of all the serfs willing to leave, to be free with their own land on Greentree, Westbreak Island or some other nearby island.

Now that the EoC can charter hundreds of galleons to transport hundreds of thousands of ex-serfs, moving a 1/4-1/2 million over a month or so, to start with, would shock the aristocracy to its very core, challenging all their assumptions.

Meanwhile OWL's broadsheets would ensure even the serfs all across North Harchong would know what happened and what will happen in the future so they can start to hope, then prepare for the opportunity when it comes.

Snip

Your wise comments will be appreciated.

L

I'm not sure it makes sense to send freed serfs to any of the vacant islands. They know nothing of government, trade, politics (in the good sense where people with different ideas solve problems without destroying the weaker party),etc.It might be better to move them into Westmarch, or other sparsely populated areas in Siddarmark or the Empire, to work with the locals while they're run through a GED program (high school equivalency for those outside the US). Passing the GED test would put them into some sort of homesteading program. Not sure how this might be done but if some sort of screening process could be put in place to identify those with mechanical abilities and move them into training programs to work in industry.

EdThomas, err, GED before they get to homestead? Can I refer you to the FAQ on education in Safehold? The vast majority of Safeholdian farmers don't have secondary education. The vast majority of Harchong serfs don't even read and write far less have full primary education, cf the shepherd turned MH colour seargent in HFQ. Getting GED would take years, most of them wouldn't see the point and it would be grossly discriminatory to expect them to have, or support them to get, qualifications so much in advance of their locally-born neighbours'.

Randomiser wrote:EdThomas, err, GED before they get to homestead? Can I refer you to the FAQ on education in Safehold? The vast majority of Safeholdian farmers don't have secondary education. The vast majority of Harchong serfs don't even read and write far less have full primary education, cf the shepherd turned MH colour seargent in HFQ. Getting GED would take years, most of them wouldn't see the point and it would be grossly discriminatory to expect them to have, or support them to get, qualifications so much in advance of their locally-born neighbours'.

Maybe the GED is a bit high.
Unless you teach these people to read and write, do basic arithmetic, all you're doing is moving them from one form of slavery to another.
Maybe while we're educating the serfs we can get started on raising the education levels of the rural population and the lower economic classes in towns and cities. Improving the levels of education can be tricky though. You never know what kinds of ideas these newly educated people might have.

Your thoughts on how the serf population can be brought into the literate world?

EdThomas wrote:

Randomiser wrote:EdThomas, err, GED before they get to homestead? Can I refer you to the FAQ on education in Safehold? The vast majority of Safeholdian farmers don't have secondary education. The vast majority of Harchong serfs don't even read and write far less have full primary education, cf the shepherd turned MH colour seargent in HFQ. Getting GED would take years, most of them wouldn't see the point and it would be grossly discriminatory to expect them to have, or support them to get, qualifications so much in advance of their locally-born neighbours'.

Maybe the GED is a bit high.
Unless you teach these people to read and write, do basic arithmetic, all you're doing is moving them from one form of slavery to another.
Maybe while we're educating the serfs we can get started on raising the education levels of the rural population and the lower economic classes in towns and cities. Improving the levels of education can be tricky though. You never know what kinds of ideas these newly educated people might have.

Your thoughts on how the serf population can be brought into the literate world?

Isn't everyone on Safehold supposed to get 5 years of primary ed courtesy the church?

Don

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"supposed", that word is key

given the general attitude towards them from rayno etc I can easily see that money being diverted elsewhere. spent on one of a dozen other things

Dauntless wrote:"supposed", that word is key

given the general attitude towards them from rayno etc I can easily see that money being diverted elsewhere. spent on one of a dozen other things

And I can recall several instances in the textev of people being "functionally illiterate." There's one case of a guy who is now an aide in the ICA who was a sergeant in the Corisande invasion, who went to the "Imperial Officer's School" where they apparently have remedial education down to a science...

WeberFan wrote:

Dauntless wrote:"supposed", that word is key

given the general attitude towards them from rayno etc I can easily see that money being diverted elsewhere. spent on one of a dozen other things

And I can recall several instances in the textev of people being "functionally illiterate." There's one case of a guy who is now an aide in the ICA who was a sergeant in the Corisande invasion, who went to the "Imperial Officer's School" where they apparently have remedial education down to a science...

To see the problems and some possible solutions, it would make sense to research the efforts of those who worked to educate new freemen after the American Civil War. I've never checked this out, but the little bits found by accident suggest this as a line worth researching


PS, the USA education system is turning out functional illiterates even today. You might take a look at how many parents in the inner cities are trying to get their children into charter schools, and just why they are being frustrated in this. Political, as you might expect

n7axw wrote:
Isn't everyone on Safehold supposed to get 5 years of primary ed courtesy the church?

Don

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Don,

As per the FAQ http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6/page:2

" The Church strongly encourages primary education for all Safeholdians, although that has not always been the case and even now it is not compulsory. ... There is no charge for the first five years of primary education. ... Secondary education, however, is not free. ... The desk fee is set at what constitutes a nominal cost for a middle-class family, which means that it is cheaper than dirt from an aristocrat's perspective and incredibly dear from the perspective of a yeoman farmer. The Church does, however, sponsor a certain percentage of scholarship students, for whom the Church picks up the costs." (somewhat reordered for clarity)

As in all societies where primary education is not compulsory and child labour is permitted, lots of poorer families are going to see sending the kids out to work as their only option for survival. Unless the kid gets a scholarship, and even then its a big financial stretch because of the loss of income, very few from a 'lower class' background are going to get a secondary education.

Moreover, textev and some of RFC's posts (IIRC) indicate that the situation is not uniform across Safehold. The last thing aristocrats in places like Harchong want is for serfs to be reading inflammatory material like oh, the Writ, say, for themselves and getting to think their lords should be applying its injunctions to the way they treat their serfs. Because of its cosy relationship with the Aristocracy the church doesn't push it too hard and the lower class population is still very largely illiterate.

Randomiser wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Isn't everyone on Safehold supposed to get 5 years of primary ed courtesy the church?

Don

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Don,

As per the FAQ http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6/page:2

" The Church strongly encourages primary education for all Safeholdians, although that has not always been the case and even now it is not compulsory. ... There is no charge for the first five years of primary education. ... Secondary education, however, is not free. ...

Nice catch, Randomizer.

Don

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WeberFan wrote:
Per HFQ:
(Emphasis is mine)
"Shayn Island lay smack in the middle of the entrance to Saram Bay in the Province of Steve, the primary western anchorage of the Royal Dohlaran Navy now that the Dohlarans had lost Claw Island."

I THINK that's where Admiral Rohasil (RDN) is hanging his hat lately...

Oh, yes. In fact, on the Saram map, in the bay off the City of Rhaigair, you can see the fleet anchorage area labeled, along with the Arsenal, Dockyard area and Warehouse District along the shoreline.