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Nativization of Forces

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Nativization of Forces
Post by Larry   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:04 am

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OK I confess to having lost track, so I'll ask people with better memory or attention spans than I have. Right now the EoC forces are primarily the ones doing most of the fighting on the front lines in both the North and the South of Siddermark.
The Republic itself was devastated and is only just getting back on it's feet. Still the fact remains that Siddarmark has a long tradition of Army service, it's units are quickly being retrained and rearmed, so how soon could significant deployments of Siddermarkian forces be brought forward to relieve EOC forces and take over at least defending fixed lines of fortifications allowing EOC forces to swap out and move around for an offensive in a different area like say straight at Temple Bay or straight into Malansath as a massive flanking strike.
After all the Temple forces have basically locked themselves on a single front facing Siddermark but there is really a lot more border to the Temple controlled lands than that. If Siddermarkian native forces could simply continue to pin them along the Siddermark border, wouldn't that free up EoC army units to hit elsewhere, like someplace where all those Harchongese and their new Artillery and Katyusha's aren't?
Of course the key is, how fast can Siddermarkian units get stood up. And I know that's been mentioned a few places, but I've forgotten the timeline. Could it be by late spring when improving conditions allow better transport? By late Summer? Late Fall? Just can't seem to remember.

Larry
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by WeberFan   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:03 am

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Don't think your premise is completely correct.

In HFQ?? we learned that there were already 5 Siddarmarkan divisions (65,000 personnel) deployed to the front lines with a couple of additional independent brigades cleaning out the South. We also learned that another 10 divisions (130,000 personnel) were finishing up their training and would soon be deployed. Finally, we learned that there were 15 additional divisions (195,000 personnel) getting ready to begin their training. The numbers are based on my extrapolation from previous numbers for the new model Siddarmarkan forces that RFC provided.

The limiting factor was weapons - specifically rifles. Many of the new divisions are being armed with captured weapons. I definitely remember reading that the Siddarmarkan forces would "never again be sent out with pikes." (paraphrasing). My sense is that as the Siddarmarkan manufacturing base comes on line, with new Charisian processes for assembly lines and steelmaking, and as hundreds of thousands of Siddarmarkan "Rosie the Riveters" are trained in Manufacturing, the Siddarmarkan forces will become a true force to be reckoned with, especially as they start using Charisian doctrines. And I truly believe that they'll be about as motivated against the Temple forces and the Harchongians as a field force ever could be...
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by EdThomas   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:39 am

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WeberFan wrote:SNIP
The limiting factor was weapons - specifically rifles. SNIP
And I truly believe that they'll be about as motivated against the Temple forces and the Harchongians as a field force ever could be...

I think artillery, especially mortars, is another big factor here. Mortars should be within their capacity to manufacture on their own though so that may not be as large a factor. I think you might be understating their motivation :)
Didn't BGV leave the taking of Ohlarn to Siddarmarkian units when he took off cross-country?
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by Whitecold   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:05 am

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EdThomas wrote:I think artillery, especially mortars, is another big factor here. Mortars should be within their capacity to manufacture on their own though so that may not be as large a factor. I think you might be understating their motivation :)
Didn't BGV leave the taking of Ohlarn to Siddarmarkian units when he took off cross-country?

Artillery is certainly a factor, though I don't think mortars will be any easier than cannons. Charisian mortars get their mobility due to using steel. Iron mortars will be huge brutes, and hard to maneuver, so they are likely better off with cannons instead, and once steel production is ramped up, they should be able to manufacture the full assortment of rifles, angles and mortars.
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by Randomiser   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:35 am

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What Weberfan said

It's all a matter of degree. How many Siddermarkian Divisions do you want? They have been arriving in increasing numbers as they finish training and, especially, as they can be equipped, for some time now.

Eastshare had a big Glacierheart volunteer unit at Fort Tairys. The army that came to support him there from the East was about 2/3 Siddermarkian, I think. The corps that took Fairkyn was all Siddermarkian with Charisian Artillery support. The army that finished things in the Sylmahn Gap and took Guarnak had a high proportion of Siddermarkians.

It's a big war and it's hard to keep everything straight. Besides which, we have carefully never been given sight of the strategic plan or timescale for rebuilding the Siddermarkian Army. We only hear about units as they become ready, or nearly ready, for deployment.
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by EdThomas   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:47 am

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Whitecold wrote:SNIP
Artillery is certainly a factor, though I don't think mortars will be any easier than cannons. Charisian mortars get their mobility due to using steel. Iron mortars will be huge brutes, and hard to maneuver, so they are likely better off with cannons instead, and once steel production is ramped up, they should be able to manufacture the full assortment of rifles, angles and mortars.

You may be right. I was thinking mortars use a lot less steel and are a lot simpler to build.
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by EdThomas   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:53 am

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Randomiser wrote:What Weberfan said

SNIP
It's a big war and it's hard to keep everything straight. Besides which, we have carefully never been given sight of the strategic plan or timescale for rebuilding the Siddermarkian Army. We only hear about units as they become ready, or nearly ready, for deployment.

I recall that a large number of the Siddarmarkian force had been sent out to clean up the scattered Temple Loyalist forces so we wouldn't have heard about them.
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by crucisnh   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:32 pm

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Also, at what point might we see Corisandian forces added to the mix? Or might they be used to supplement the training cadres up on Chisolm when the local anti-imperial nobles finally decide to get all uppity?
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by n7axw   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:15 pm

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As I recall the numbers, by the end of HFQ, Siddarmark had managed to arm and train in the range of 400,000 men for their new rifle regiments. The EOC so far has managed to field 300,000 men in Siddarmark. These figures aren't specifically differentiating betweem infantry, dragoons and artillery.

As both Siddarmark and the EOC continue to expand their industrial base, what started off as a trickle of new weapons is going to become a flood. Additionally both still have lots of manpower to recruit. I wouldn't be surprised at 1.5 million in the field for the alliance before this is over.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Nativization of Forces
Post by Alistair   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:01 pm

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My best guess is that Siddarmark will have around 50 divisions ready for front line action next summer with an indeterminat number of milita doing rear area duties.

That is: 30 divisions already activated plus another 20 training through the winter ready in time for the spring campaign.

I wouldn't be shocked if they might even be able to double that total number in their next cycle as their own rifle production supplements captured rifles and Charisian imports to create a pythons lump of rifles flowing through to divisions been stood up or militia units being transferred in mass.

So by the end of the next summer if the war is still on there could almost be 100 divisions in the field or around 1.5 million. Presuming that there is no heavy casualites in the field.

Its still way below the 3-4 million regular and militia reserves they had before the "rising" but still a solid number and they will supported on a more sustainable basis than the Temple Loyalists.
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