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ATST snippet #5

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:49 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:_________________________________________

And I really couldn't possibly say how abundant helium might be on Safeway . . . . [tum-te-tum-te-tum] :twisted:

Not really in grocery shoppping - the question is how abundant it is on Safehold :mrgreen:
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by ssl4000g   » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:28 pm

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Regarding helium, how pure does the helium need to be to lift large balloons/dirigibles?

The processes outlined for the purification of helium gas seem very intensive. Even if RFC 'can't' say how present helium sources are on Safehold, wouldn't the processes necessary be a tech leap well beyond the 'natural evolution' of the tech EoC has developed so far?

W
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by evilauthor   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:17 am

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ssl4000g wrote:Regarding helium, how pure does the helium need to be to lift large balloons/dirigibles?

The processes outlined for the purification of helium gas seem very intensive. Even if RFC 'can't' say how present helium sources are on Safehold, wouldn't the processes necessary be a tech leap well beyond the 'natural evolution' of the tech EoC has developed so far?

W


It was mentioned in text that air conditioning/cryogenic technology was already in Charis' reach. It basically involves playing with air pressure, aka reducing air pressure in a container also reduces the temperature of the air in the container. With pneumatic power lines and power tools, Delthak has everything he needs to create a primitive cooling system.

The only reason Charis isn't pursuing the technology is because Father Paytyr doesn't want to fight that theological battle while there's still an actual war going on.
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by Peter2   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:55 am

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I think we've all missed a point here. As RFC said, helium was first found in the sun, not on Earth. The EoC inner circle has access to the knowledge that helium exists, but how do they go about explaining to those outside the inner circle why they went looking for it? It's present at vanishingly small levels in the atmosphere, it is so light that it largely escapes from the atmosphere into space, and it is the most inert chemical of all. It does not signal its presence in any even half-obvious way.

Even if Sandra Lywys or one of her assistants started on a "blue sky" investigation of what natural gas is made up of (and I do not remember any textev that anyone is even looking at natural gas), they might have to take special precautions to stop it escaping. And they would then have to present a reason why they did it.
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:59 am

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Peter2 wrote:Even if Sandra Lywys or one of her assistants started on a "blue sky" investigation of what natural gas is made up of (and I do not remember any textev that anyone is even looking at natural gas), they might have to take special precautions to stop it escaping. And they would then have to present a reason why they did it.
.


Frankly, the helium is pretty hard to obtain in large quantites on relatuve primitive industrial level. It is possible, yes, but it required pretty developed liquifying technology to separate from natural gas and then you need to get rid of hydrogen and neon.

No, for foreseable future, Charis is stuck with hydrogen.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by peke   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:34 am

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Just a question... how high can one of these contraptions go? Two hundred feet? Five hundred? Matías Pérez?
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There is no problem so complex that it cannot be solved through the judicious application of high-power explosives.
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by Joat42   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:38 am

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peke wrote:Just a question... how high can one of these contraptions go? Two hundred feet? Five hundred? Matías Pérez?

Practically, how long is your tether?

Theoretically, until the crew passes out because of asphyxiation or the cells rupture because of the pressure differential.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by tonyz   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:44 am

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Keep in mind that the balloon has to lift the weight of the tether as well as it's own weight. But IIRC WW I balloons
were easily flying at 500-1500 feet (ditto barrage balloons
in WW II), which gives a VERY long-range view. So probably there's no need to go _too_ high...

Joat42 wrote:
peke wrote:Just a question... how high can one of these contraptions go? Two hundred feet? Five hundred? Matías Pérez?

Practically, how long is your tether?

Theoretically, until the crew passes out because of asphyxiation or the cells rupture because of the pressure differential.
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by Captain Igloo   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:54 am

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tonyz wrote:Keep in mind that the balloon has to lift the weight of the tether as well as it's own weight. But IIRC WW I balloons
were easily flying at 500-1500 feet (ditto barrage balloons
in WW II), which gives a VERY long-range view. So probably there's no need to go _too_ high...



Observer ballons in WW1
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Re: ATST snippet #5
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:04 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
peke wrote:Just a question... how high can one of these contraptions go? Two hundred feet? Five hundred? Matías Pérez?

Practically, how long is your tether?

Theoretically, until the crew passes out because of asphyxiation or the cells rupture because of the pressure differential.


I would think that the weight of your tether would become a serious issue before the lack of oxygen became an issue.
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