SPOILERS==Shadow of Victory Comments, Queries and Opinions

Newby question that I did not see ion the forums
mainline books have up till now had the word Honor in even numbered books

I was curious as to the origin of the title Shadow of Victory

Calth wrote:

ChronicRder wrote:I haven't read the entire thread, but I have read the entire earc. Read further at your peril if you haven't read it all yet.


Can we please get positive traction on the story going forward? As it is, this book just seemed like a needless book designed to make quick cash and take advantage of readers. I feel really let down by this book, however well written it is.

runsforcelery wrote:You are, as anyone else --- and as I've said previously on this forum --- entitled to your personal opinion. You should, however, be aware, that I am seriously and sincerely pissed off by the section I've bolded above. You stated it as "just seemed like," which is a phrase often used by people fond of weasle-wording their accusations. I do not say that was your intention; I say it "just seemed like" that to me.

I have never and will never --- ever --- write a book or tell a story to "make quick cash and take advantage of readers." If that's what you genuinely think I've done in this case, then please punish me by never spending money on one of my books again.

This is the kind of blowback I criticized in my previous post. "Seemed like to me" aren't weasel words. Its acknowledging that he(or she) cant possibly know your intentions, no matter what you say on the forum. He is simply stating what he felt upon reading the book. I mean, its even giving you some of the benefit of the doubt. Reading the reviews, and including my own impressions, a not insignificant portion of the reader base feels the same way. I am most certainly not saying that is what the intent was, but that is response being generated by the book for a number of readers. Responses like the quoted one seriously lead me to consider the option you are giving of moving on with my readership.

That, too, is your option. To me, "it seemed like" is not "I can't possibly know your intentions." "It seemed [to me] like" is just as valid a way to read the words as the one you suggest, and that reading of it is a statement of opinion which clearly suggests a motivation on my part.

I've attempted to respond civilly and reasonably to the comments in this thread, and I've repeatedly agreed that anyone has the right to his/her own opinion. This is the first time I have responded with anything which could remotely be called temper, I believe, and I did so because if that is what the poster or anyone else genuinely believes I was doing, they are in serious error. And if that isn't what he genuinely believes, then perhaps a sentence structure --- or an expansion in the sense you suggest he intended with "it seemed like" ---might have been in order.

This particular charge --- or opinion --- is one which I find (and I, too, am entitled to my opinion, I believe) offensive. I responded to it as such.

I have no desire to get into any flame wars, and as I stated earlier, I haven't accused anyone of trying to "troll" me to provoke me into an intemperate response. To paraphrase your own comment above, I can't read the mind behind this particular post to know that he had any such intention and, in fact, I don't think he did. I do think it was poorly phrased, that the motivation it clearly (to me) seems to assign was personally offensive to me, and that I have a right to respond to it, making clear that fact that it offended me, whatever his intent may have been.

If he, or anyone else, wishes to criticize the writing, the story line, the characterization, or any other aspect of the craftsmanship which went into the book, that's fine. I may not agree, but I think I've demonstrated my willingness to listen to such critiques throughout this thread. If he wants to discuss what he intended to say in the post to which I objected and my response to it --- with, I promise, no preemptive flaming from my side --- then I'm perfectly willing to do that, too. But if you feel that calling someone out on what --- intentionally or not -- seemed to me to go directly to my motivation in writing the book and my honesty as a writer constitutes inappropriate "blowback," then you and I obviously have different definitions of "blowback" and inappropriate. And the last time I checked, I am no more required to check my opinions at the door than I require anyone else to do on these forums.

Opinions are welcome and trying to restrict them to "free speech zones" is a pretty totalitarian concept, to my thinking. That's always been my position on this site, in fact, and I bellieve I've demonstrated that fairly clearly over the years. But that works from both sides of any debate/discussion. Misunderstandings happen, and so do misinterpretations, and clarification is always welcome. That does not deprive me --- or anyone else --- of the right to respond . . . negatively to what seems to him to be an ad hominem characterization of his motivations.

Welcome aboard. The series name began with Shadow of Saganami. That was pretty clear cut as the began with Edward Saganami's last transmission. Since then the title played with the word Shadow.

Enjoy the stories as I do and have a idigital adult beverage on me.
Cheers!

Timelord wrote:Newby question that I did not see ion the forums
mainline books have up till now had the word Honor in even numbered books

I was curious as to the origin of the title Shadow of Victory

Thank you PeterZ, much appreciated

to rephrase the question a bit better I am curious why (assuming this is a mainline book) it has a Shadow series title and an "Honor" title

PeterZ wrote:Welcome aboard. The series name began with Shadow of Saganami. That was pretty clear cut as the began with Edward Saganami's last transmission. Since then the title played with the word Shadow.

Enjoy the stories as I do and have a idigital adult beverage on me.
Cheers!

Timelord wrote:Newby question that I did not see ion the forums
mainline books have up till now had the word Honor in even numbered books

I was curious as to the origin of the title Shadow of Victory

Kufat wrote:It reads like a collection of deleted scenes that were cut from the last few books for not advancing the plot.

I wanted to clarify my post a bit. I'm well aware that the above wasn't actually the case. I know it's all new material, specifically written for this book. It just..felt like reading Nightfall, the novella from one of the anthologies that was, IIRC, cut from another Honor book, or like watching a large set of deleted scenes from a Criterion Collection release.

I'm disappointed, but I wasn't accusing Mr. Weber of repackaging leftovers.

Apologies. This is not a mainline book. David mentioned that he was going to bring the Shadow series and Slave series back into one, mainline sequence. If he keeps to that statement, this may be the last Shadow book. He can of course choose to continue them. I would prefer he continue them.

Timelord wrote:Thank you PeterZ, much appreciated

to rephrase the question a bit better I am curious why (assuming this is a mainline book) it has a Shadow series title and an "Honor" title

PeterZ wrote:Welcome aboard. The series name began with Shadow of Saganami. That was pretty clear cut as the began with Edward Saganami's last transmission. Since then the title played with the word Shadow.

Enjoy the stories as I do and have a idigital adult beverage on me.
Cheers!

Timelord wrote:Thank you PeterZ, much appreciated

to rephrase the question a bit better I am curious why (assuming this is a mainline book) it has a Shadow series title and an "Honor" title

In a lot of ways this seems more like a Shadow book than a mainline book. In fact I choose to organize it in my personal e-filing system as Shadiw book 4 (S04) rather than 'mainline' book 14 (HH14). Both the primary setting of the action and the characters focused on fit in more with the Talbott books. (Though it also covers people and territory more often seen in the Meya/Torch books)

So maybe the next (and currently planned to be final) book in the series will use Honor somewhere in the title and keep that naming pattern of every other Harrington focused book containing "Honor".

no apologies needed.
Thank you. I have seen a couple of places (wikipedia and elsewhere) that said this was a mainline book which was the source of my question.

I agree I would very much like David to continue writing stories in the Honorverse for many years to come

Jonathan_S wrote:

Timelord wrote:Thank you PeterZ, much appreciated

to rephrase the question a bit better I am curious why (assuming this is a mainline book) it has a Shadow series title and an "Honor" title

In a lot of ways this seems more like a Shadow book than a mainline book. In fact I choose to organize it in my personal e-filing system as Shadiw book 4 (S04) rather than 'mainline' book 14 (HH14). Both the primary setting of the action and the characters focused on fit in more with the Talbott books. (Though it also covers people and territory more often seen in the Meya/Torch books)

So maybe the next (and currently planned to be final) book in the series will use Honor somewhere in the title and keep that naming pattern of every other Harrington focused book containing "Honor".

That is the current game plan. Exactly how I'll find a title with "Honor" that works is a bit more problematic.
Using her first name somewhere in every other book seemed like such a good idea . . . when I thought there'd be only six or seven of them.

That's why I love this book. Even with the final Honor story, there are lots of possible stories to tell about the "youngsters" adventures in the wonderful and still developing star nations of the Verge. These would be more like the Vorkosigan stories rather than a 21 book epic.

That's my hope, anyway.

runsforcelery wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:In a lot of ways this seems more like a Shadow book than a mainline book. In fact I choose to organize it in my personal e-filing system as Shadiw book 4 (S04) rather than 'mainline' book 14 (HH14). Both the primary setting of the action and the characters focused on fit in more with the Talbott books. (Though it also covers people and territory more often seen in the Meya/Torch books)

So maybe the next (and currently planned to be final) book in the series will use Honor somewhere in the title and keep that naming pattern of every other Harrington focused book containing "Honor".

That is the current game plan. Exactly how I'll find a title with "Honor" that works is a bit more problematic.
Using her first name somewhere in every other book seemed like such a good idea . . . when I thought there'd be only six or seven of them.