ATST snippet #5

USMA74 wrote:

peke wrote:Whoopeeeeeeee!!! Airships!!!

As artillery spotters, airships are unbeatable, at least at the current technology level. Can't wait to read how the doctrine for using them will evolve.

As requested from the 1913 edition of the U.S. Army's Field Service Regulations:

--SNIP--

Captive balloons may be used to good advantage as elevated observing stations, wherever aeroplanes are not available for this service. Communication from a captive balloon to the ground should be by telephone; in this way it is possible to connect the telephone wire with the field telephone lines for direct communication to any headquarters.

--SNIP--

Forget about aeroplanes [sic.] for the time being. Use the same type of semaphore used throughout Safehold instead of telephones and you have doctrine for the employment of airships.

I'm even more convinced that these new contraptions are going straight into the artillery support role.

Just a thought, instead of using a scaled down semaphore, it will probably use a heliograph (which is already in use in some ICA corps, I think).

PS. Anyone here ever play Starcraft? There was a tactic centered on Terran long-range artillery, essentially like this: establish an artillery line using half your available tanks. Use the other half to establish a second line a bit farther, so the first line can still provide cover. Redeploy the first line a bit ahead of the second in the same way. Rinse and repeat. Keep your infantry and AA assets close at all times to repel attacks against the deployed artillery.

Worked wonders against entrenched positions.

Airships rule in a world with no aircraft. They can stay so high they are out of artillery range but still be able to bomb key targets behind enemy lines. Even better they provide fire control for ground based artillery. Not sure if hot air would provide enough lift. Helium would be best. Light and safe.

A possible way to use balloons offensively:

As has been discussed a balloon is at the mercy of the winds. Merlin has Fed-tech weather reports and can pass that information on to members of the inner circle so a limited use of it on the battlefield is possible.

If you're trying to attack a fixed formation go upwind of it, launch your balloon. If the wind is in your favor it passes over, they drop a bunch of rods with explosive/incendiary charges. Your accuracy will be abysmal as you'll need to be pretty high to ensure safety (although for a while at least all they will be facing is in effect round shot, it would take a golden BB to actually hit the balloon and there's no way the defenders will come up with a good AA round.)

The objective would not be the troops, but their supplies.

The path is plotted so that after crossing the target the balloon comes over friendly territory for recovery.

Ed130 The Vanguard wrote:

WeberFan wrote:SNIP

And when I first read your post, I immediately thought of Napoleon's winter retreat from Russia... I remember a poster I once saw that showed Napoleon's march east (beginning with some 600,000 troops) as a river. It got gradually narrower as he marched east. Then it showed the return... When he left France, it was as wide as the Amazon where it empties into the Atlantic. But by the time he got back, his army was beyond decimated, and the river had turned into something more akin to the creek that's down the street from my house. Very compelling poster.

You mean this poster?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Minard.png/1280px-Minard.png

Yep...

That's the one.

First saw it in a book on Visual Representations by Edward Tufte.

If the airships were to use bombs of some kind,wouldn't that have the potential to overstretch,so to speak the
Empire of Charis's industrial capacity?

After all,they already have trouble producing enough of the new artillery shells to meet demand,so wouldn't throwing
anything else into the mix further complicate the issue?

WeberFan wrote:SNIP

wkernochan wrote:
Were I faced with Green Valley's dilemma, the first thing I might consider is logistics: specifically, how they feed/supply the large force. We know the key route is the Holy Langhorne Canal, and that Rainbow Waters is concerned with the effects of losing it. It is therefore reasonable to conjecture that destroying that Canal would either force Rainbow Waters to retreat in mid-winter (major loss of life, even without serious pressure from EoC, plus probably Clytahn won't stand for it) or force RW to attack in mid-winter (same result).

And when I first read your post, I immediately thought of Napoleon's winter retreat from Russia... I remember a poster I once saw that showed Napoleon's march east (beginning with some 600,000 troops) as a river. It got gradually narrower as he marched east. Then it showed the return... When he left France, it was as wide as the Amazon where it empties into the Atlantic. But by the time he got back, his army was beyond decimated, and the river had turned into something more akin to the creek that's down the street from my house. Very compelling poster.

This line of reasoning really intrigues me. Frankly, given Green Valley's access to an extensive military history unavailable to others, and his capacity to think outside the box, I really would expect him to try some sort of an end-around, and destruction of key parts of the Holy Langhorne Canal would be something I'd look at in his shoes.

Sadly, my my mind is not nearly as devious as that of RFC, nor is my imagination as great (these are compliments, really!). Ima just have to wait and see what RFC and Green Valley come up with!

Another thought.

This situation reminds me more of the Battle of Kursk in WWII than it does of trench warfare in WWI. Each side has far more artillery than the WWI commanders had.

On the other side of the equation, neither side has tanks.

peke wrote:
PS. Anyone here ever play Starcraft? There was a tactic centered on Terran long-range artillery, essentially like this: establish an artillery line using half your available tanks. Use the other half to establish a second line a bit farther, so the first line can still provide cover. Redeploy the first line a bit ahead of the second in the same way. Rinse and repeat. Keep your infantry and AA assets close at all times to repel attacks against the deployed artillery.

Worked wonders against entrenched positions.

Very possibly. But here the ICA don't have tanks and the MH have angle guns. So you are going to get an artillery duel between exposed mobile guns and emplaced possibly heavier defending artillery (which knows exactly where their own lines you are over-running are.) Suddenly it doesn't sound so clever.

Airships would be very more useful in civilian use. Cutting the transit times between Old Charis and Chisholm for our monarchs would be eminently worthwhile in itself. Using hydrogen may be less safe, but finding something other than elements for rocket fuel to seal the gas bags may be enough. That is if material that is sufficiently nonporous to hydrogen can be found. I wouldn't mind a little handwavium to make it happen either.

If that won't work helium may have to suffice. Not sure if producing helium will be more difficult than using hydrogen. Finding out will be real interesting. I look forward to it.

OK, I can't resist more clueless thoughts.

(1) If the name of the game is eliminating supply, then even without eliminating the HLC supply route, some things could be done, afaik. The rockets are not that mobile, and EoC artillery outranges them. So pick your spot in that long front between the Snake Mountains and Cat Wing Lake where there are no rockets. Do a bombardment, so the rockets are drawn to that area, and then let the rockets expend themselves while you are sitting replying beyond rocket range.

Now suppose RW attacks you once the rockets are there. Set up dummy fortifications, and let the rockets pound them. Once the rockets have IDed where they are by firing, pound the rockets beyond their range. If RW takes over your dummy fortifications, all that has happened is that he has extended his front, making it easier to pick your spots. And the expenditure of munitions will be extensive, so his supplies especially of rockets but also of ammunition and of weapons hit by your fire is extensive.

Eventually, before he is bled to death, RW will have to retreat or advance en masse. If he advances, he has to go by way of Hildermoss and the Gap, so you use scorched earth to starve him and hit him from the side as he moves where the rockets aren't, like Grant pursuing Lee after Petersburg. Likewise, if RW retreats, hit him on the near side in the same way.

(2) Is a tank really so unlikely? Suppose you simply put armor on one or two of the steam autos, plus an artillery gun up front. Ship it via canal to nearly where Hanth is. There probably isn't any Dohlarian weapon that can destroy it, and the Dohlarian defensive fortifications are not designed to trap it. Send it in front "straight down the middle" to knock out much of the existing fortifications/artillery, then follow with your infantry to at least take the front-line trenches, if not split the Dohlarian army in two. Note that this only works once, so you can't use it against RW.