ATST snippet #5

SNIP

wkernochan wrote:
Were I faced with Green Valley's dilemma, the first thing I might consider is logistics: specifically, how they feed/supply the large force. We know the key route is the Holy Langhorne Canal, and that Rainbow Waters is concerned with the effects of losing it. It is therefore reasonable to conjecture that destroying that Canal would either force Rainbow Waters to retreat in mid-winter (major loss of life, even without serious pressure from EoC, plus probably Clytahn won't stand for it) or force RW to attack in mid-winter (same result).

And when I first read your post, I immediately thought of Napoleon's winter retreat from Russia... I remember a poster I once saw that showed Napoleon's march east (beginning with some 600,000 troops) as a river. It got gradually narrower as he marched east. Then it showed the return... When he left France, it was as wide as the Amazon where it empties into the Atlantic. But by the time he got back, his army was beyond decimated, and the river had turned into something more akin to the creek that's down the street from my house. Very compelling poster.

dobriennm wrote:So a technical question, is Charis using hydrochloric acid and magnesium because it generates more gas, it's just a faster reaction, or more compact storage than just using magnesium and water? Or some combination of the three?

And where did they get the magnesium, i.e., what industrial byproduct or pre-Merlin standard Safehold process would provide pure magnesium?

If someone can think of another material used with hydrochloric acid to produce hydrogen gas, the same questions would apply.

I'm not a chemist, so the use of magnesium is just a quick google search and assumption on my part.

Since the snippet talks about hauling quantities of zinc around, I guess that's what they are using. Safehold uses brass, and they need zinc ore at least for that so it's not too big a push. Looking at Youtube the reaction proceeds quite fast at ambient temperatures.

Randomiser wrote:[snip]
And where did they get the magnesium, i.e., what industrial byproduct or pre-Merlin standard Safehold process would provide pure magnesium?

[snip]


Since the snippet talks about hauling quantities of zinc around, I guess that's what they are using. Safehold uses brass, and they need zinc ore at least for that so it's not too big a push.

Magnesium can be produced by the reduction of magnesium oxide by carbon at elevated temperatures. One name for the method is the Hansgirg Process.
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I know some have speculated on a steam propelled dirigible, but when you consider that you have hydrogen gas cells floating above a coal fired boiler, the risk of sparks from the exhaust gas igniting the bags is probably not considered a good thing. Since Charis is the premier navy on the planet, maybe someone can come up with a sail plan for a dirigible. Depending on wind currents, you might just be able to make a fair number of bombing runs on the cannels bringing up supplies or do a large bomb drop on Rainbow Water’s artillery park. Just a thought.

WeberFan wrote:SNIP

wkernochan wrote:
Were I faced with Green Valley's dilemma, the first thing I might consider is logistics: specifically, how they feed/supply the large force. We know the key route is the Holy Langhorne Canal, and that Rainbow Waters is concerned with the effects of losing it. It is therefore reasonable to conjecture that destroying that Canal would either force Rainbow Waters to retreat in mid-winter (major loss of life, even without serious pressure from EoC, plus probably Clytahn won't stand for it) or force RW to attack in mid-winter (same result).

And when I first read your post, I immediately thought of Napoleon's winter retreat from Russia... I remember a poster I once saw that showed Napoleon's march east (beginning with some 600,000 troops) as a river. It got gradually narrower as he marched east. Then it showed the return... When he left France, it was as wide as the Amazon where it empties into the Atlantic. But by the time he got back, his army was beyond decimated, and the river had turned into something more akin to the creek that's down the street from my house. Very compelling poster.

You mean this poster?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Minard.png/1280px-Minard.png

Randomiser wrote:
Since the snippet talks about hauling quantities of zinc around, I guess that's what they are using. Safehold uses brass, and they need zinc ore at least for that so it's not too big a push. Looking at Youtube the reaction proceeds quite fast at ambient temperatures.

Sorry, missed the Zinc reference in the snippet. Looked at the YouTube reference

But using Zinc has two advantage: 1) No reaction in water - safer to transport and 2) useful for iron/Steel ships as cathodic protection in seawater (they may already be using it so they may have it readily available as ingots)

Reader_of_Fiction wrote:I know some have speculated on a steam propelled dirigible, but when you consider that you have hydrogen gas cells floating above a coal fired boiler, the risk of sparks from the exhaust gas igniting the bags is probably not considered a good thing. Since Charis is the premier navy on the planet, maybe someone can come up with a sail plan for a dirigible. Depending on wind currents, you might just be able to make a fair number of bombing runs on the cannels bringing up supplies or do a large bomb drop on Rainbow Water’s artillery park. Just a thought.

Why we should use COIL as airship fuel? We are out of oil and ehtanol?

P.S. Sails for airships simply would not work. They could not use the water friction to balance the wind. So they would just flew with the wind, with no ability to control other than engines.

peke wrote:Whoopeeeeeeee!!! Airships!!!

As artillery spotters, airships are unbeatable, at least at the current technology level. Can't wait to read how the doctrine for using them will evolve.

As requested from the 1913 edition of the U.S. Army's Field Service Regulations:
"56. Military air craft of all kinds will be employed under the direction of the commander of the forces to which they are assigned and the immediate control of the officer commanding the aero organization.
Balloons are classed as free, captive, and dirigible. Free balloons may be used to convey information from besieged places, the return message being sent by radiotelegraphy, carrier pigeons, or otherwise. Free balloons are of little use for any other service and are not very dependable on account of their uncertainty of movement.
Captive balloons may be used to good advantage as elevated observing stations, wherever aeroplanes are not available for this service. Communication from a captive balloon to the ground should be by telephone; in this way it is possible to connect the telephone wire with the field telephone lines for direct communication to any headquarters. Man-lifting kites may be similarly used when the wind prevents employment of balloons or aeroplanes. Large dirigible balloons are of practical value for strategical reconnaissance and to travel great distances; they are also suitable for carrying a number of observers, radio equipment, machine guns and considerable weight of explosives. Large dirigibles are successfully operated only from permanent stations equipped with hangars and gas plant. Aeroplanes are more dependable for field service with a mobile army than dirigible balloons, as the latter require substantial shelter' from winds while on the ground.
Military aeroplanes will be employed both for tactical and strategical, reconnaissance. Different types of aeroplanes are provided for these two general classes of service. Speed scout aeroplanes intended for strategical reconnaissance capable of flying about 200 miles are designed to carry only one aviator. Scout aeroplanes for tactical reconnaissance are designed to carry an observer in addition to the aviator, radio equipment, and automatic machine rifle. The scout type aeroplane will ordinarily be used for observing and controlling the, fire of field artillery on targets which can not be seen from the battery.
Special marks on the machine or special movements of the aeroplane will be arranged from time to time to distinguish between hostile and friendly machines: In the vicinity of the enemy, aeroplanes will travel an altitude of at least 2,000 feet unless protected by fog, haze or approaching darkness.
The usual means of communication from military aeroplanes will be the radiotelegraphy, supplemented by dropping reports, sketches, or marked maps. . Dirigible balloon and aeroplane reconnaissance supplements and extends that made by cavalry. Conditions of darkness, fog, and high winds, limit the use of the former. Maintenance of contact is essential, and this can only be secured by the successive positions of the enemy being followed up by the cavalry after location by aeronautical reconnaissance.
A cleared field suitable for starting and landing aeroplanes will be reserved for this purpose when camping sites of troops are selected.
Whenever the aviation field is not in the vicinity of headquarters, wire communication will be provided and constantly maintained between this field and headquarters."

Forget about aeroplanes [sic.] for the time being. Use the same type of semaphore used throughout Safehold instead of telephones and you have doctrine for the employment of airships.

The Zinc and Hydrochloric acid snippet reminded me of my dorm room days, an ice bath, an empty wine bottle, aluminum foil and lye. One rolled cigarette paper fuse with crushed up match heads, one unused prophylactic device and walla! An interesting flame in the sky!

A couple of other tidbits for thought:

- The man powered screw concept from the armored galleys could power an airship

- Don't forget the Zeppelin raids of WWI on London. Not militarily significant, but not good on morale either.

- With the AOG's dependence on canals, could an ICN airship put a bomb on the canal works and cut off the supply routes?

- Now let's use the bombing of an airship to cover for a 2000 pound laser guided bomb into the canal works

- While the front line troops are buried in fortifications almost impervious to ICN artillery, what about the supply depots and their susceptibility to incendiary devices or the aforementioned laser guided bombs?

Airships bring the 3rd dimension to the battlefield...can't wait to read the book!

CRC wrote:A couple of other tidbits for thought:

- The man powered screw concept from the armored galleys could power an airship

Could it really? TO GOOGLE!

Pedal-Powered Blimp Can’t Cross the Channel

Okay, on the plus side, it's been done.

On the down side, the guy couldn't make headway when going against the wind. This does not bode well for human powered airships on Safehold.

That said, I'm pretty sure the initial production run for balloons is of the "captive" type. At least going by BGV's thoughts on the subject. I think going straight to airships would be a little much for the average Safeholdian to swallow as plausible.

Hell, going to straight to hydrogen balloons instead of just hot air is stretching their suspension of disbelief IMO. They're only going to get away with it because most Safeholdians aren't technically minded.