ATST snippet #5

OrlandoNative wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:Has it occurred to anyone that actually invading Zion might be A Bad Idea™ in the view of whatever lives under the Temple?

Just asking.

Mmmmm... invading the Temple might be, but probably not invading Zion itself, at least with the current level of weaponry.

After all, Zion was probably much smaller in the days of the Archangels, so chances are so would be any "defensive perimeter" that might be programmed into any unknown defense. Also, apparently troops in the Temple and in the city aren't an immediate no-no, since nothing's ever "woken up" from the antics of the Temple Guard.

And that probably would apply to explosives, at least if they're kept outside the Temple itself, since the explosion of the bomb planted didn't set anything off either.

So it *sort* of looks at least relatively safe, as long as the Temple itself is avoided.

All excellent points.

I wonder if Charis has enough artilery range advantage to target suply dumps behind the fortifications, or even the suply runs up to the front line.

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evilauthor wrote:
And there's your primary argument AGAINST using poison gas weapons of any type. Gas weapons are VERY unreliable and make fighting even more unpleasant than it already is, even for the side using it (because the wind might blow the wrong way).

This is only true to gas clouds attacks, where the large volume of gas is released from the tanks.

But for gas-thrower (basically mortars with chemical shells) the wind direction simply doesn't matter at all. They throw gas directly onto the enemy, so whenever the wind would blew, the enemy would still have the most.

The second would be that anyone researching the subject of gas weapons would quickly discover how taboo the use of such weapons became on Earth. For the side trying to maintain the moral high ground, that would be a sure fire way to stay AWAY from developing your own version, especially when you already have a huge tech lead. You don't want to be the side known to introduce a weapon that EVERYONE will consider pure evil to use.

Please! The moral high ground is mantained by Charis by simply not attacking the civilans, like the other side do. Using the mustard gas against frontline troops would NOT be more cruel than shooting those troops with round lead bullets and blasting them with landmines.

Please! The moral high ground is mantained by Charis by simply not attacking the civilans, like the other side do. Using the mustard gas against frontline troops would NOT be more cruel than shooting those troops with round lead bullets and blasting them with landmines.

Did you completely miss the parts about the humane treatment of surrendered enemies (barring inquisitors, of course)?

I think Charis would avoid mustard gat, et al, because they wouldn't want to give the COGA the idea.
Someone on that side might consider using it against civilians.
After all, if their already godless heretics gassing them wont matter.

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Duckk wrote:
Did you completely miss the parts about the humane treatment of surrendered enemies (barring inquisitors, of course)?

Of course no. Where I said that?

P.S. And how mustard gas on frontlines could be considered mistreatment of surrendered enemies, may I ask?

Annachie wrote:I think Charis would avoid mustard gat, et al, because they wouldn't want to give the COGA the idea.
Someone on that side might consider using it against civilians.
After all, if their already godless heretics gassing them wont matter.

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Basically, no. To produce mustard gas in anything more than laboratory quantites, you need quite developed chemical industry. This is NOT something that could be syntesized quickly and without efforts. The advanced chemistry and industrial-scale component production is required.

The Church may try some primitive chemicals - like sulphur - but they wouldn't have a fraction of such effect, and even primitive gas masks would be capable to protect Charisian troops.

The main problem would be more or less psychological... it would be pretty hard for Charis to explain the effects of mustard gas in any other way than "demonic vapors". I.e. this may gave the Church possibly the only thing that could really turn the tide - the clear demonstration of demonic powers, used by Charisians.

Dilandu wrote:Of course no. Where I said that?

P.S. And how mustard gas on frontlines could be considered mistreatment of surrendered enemies, may I ask?

Let me quote you again:

Please! The moral high ground is mantained by Charis by simply not attacking the civilans, like the other side do. Using the mustard gas against frontline troops would NOT be more cruel than shooting those troops with round lead bullets and blasting them with landmines.

It's not just about that. It's about how Charis and Siddarmark are fighting as clean a war as they can, and how their enemies know it.

So a technical question, is Charis using hydrochloric acid and magnesium because it generates more gas, it's just a faster reaction, or more compact storage than just using magnesium and water? Or some combination of the three?

And where did they get the magnesium, i.e., what industrial byproduct or pre-Merlin standard Safehold process would provide pure magnesium?

If someone can think of another material used with hydrochloric acid to produce hydrogen gas, the same questions would apply.

I'm not a chemist, so the use of magnesium is just a quick google search and assumption on my part.

Randomiser wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:

Has it occurred to anyone that actually invading Zion might be A Bad Idea™ in the view of whatever lives under the Temple?

Just asking.

Well, some of us would know a lot more than others about the probability of that!

But I think the idea may have been floated on the forums once or twice.

Myself, I'm no keener on invading Zion than Cayleb was when he decided the names of the first 3 King Harahld's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Maybe it IS a bad idea. But I've been one of the proponents of it for a long time (ever since Caleb first talked about sending the Haarhald's into the bay I think). It's just such an APPEALING idea... But I can certainly understand the logic of why it wouldn't be such a good idea as well.

But it just makes me FEEL SO WARM AND COZY ALL OVER TO THINK ABOUT IT... Just thinking about Clyntahn's reaction when a flotilla of Haarhalds, accompanying a fleet of transports, sails up to Lake City...