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Favorite ships

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Favorite ships
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:32 am

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I was wondering how many here actually study ship design?
I would like to here from you, what your favorite ships are and why?
break them down into categories:
01)"A" - Ancient (oars as primary propulsion - galleys, triremes etc.)
02)"S" - Sail (as primary propulsion)
03)"I" - Iron Clad (mid 1800s - include unarmored steam ships with no sails or as backup and armored ships with sail)
04)"P" - Pre-dreadnought era (Late 1800s-1905)
05)"D" - Dreadnought era (WWI - including pre-Washington/London treaties i.e. Colorado etc.)
06)"W" - Interwar & WWII
07)"M" - Modern (post WWII - missile/jet era)
._._._._"M1" - (early) USS "Albany" (missile cruiser conversion), British "County"
._._._._"M2" - (late) "Ticonderoga"-class, Japanese "Atago"-class
08)"X" - Sci-fi
09)"C" - Civilian
10)"V" - Airship
You can include officially (comes from a published book - Jane's, Conway's etc.) projected ships that were canceled such as:
W-Montana class - the super-Iowas with 4 turrets that were canceled in WWII.
Last edited by MAD-4A on Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Wood Hulled Wind Powered Warships ...
Post by HB of CJ   » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:29 pm

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Right about 1790 to 1815. Reason being by that time ship design had reached the limits of oak wood construction? Designers understood this and attempted to compensate.

Also the human interaction when designers and Captains could not agree on designed or practical limits of distribution and top weight employing bigger cannon than imagined.
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Re: Wood Hulled Wind Powered Warships ...
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:46 pm

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HB of CJ wrote:Also the human interaction when designers and Captains could not agree on designed or practical limits of distribution and top weight employing bigger cannon than imagined.
This continued into the ironclad age. The HMS Captain was the result of a British Navy captain (Coles) thinking he could design better than the engineers and got Admiralty backing to go through with his ideas (didn't turn out so well)
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by HB of CJ   » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:50 pm

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Excellent addition and thank you. Iron ships, human Naval Captains designers. Meta centric balance issues. Glug glug glug.

Or what the USS Constitution could have been if Mr. Humphreys had had some authority with gun weights, placements and sail plans.

Or the USS Essex re gunned with 18 long 18 pounders with no spar deck guns at all. Lots of other historical zingers indeed.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:28 am

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I think, that M-class should be divided. For example, one of my personal favorites is the "Albany"-class missile cruisers; they are post-war, but no way they could be described as "modern" with their "Talos" missiles.

My proposition is to divide the M-class to the ME (Modern; Early), which would include shipd from 1946 and to 1980, and ML (Modern; Late), which would include ships from 1980 to modern times.
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Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Henry Brown   » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:35 pm

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Since you say favorite ships: I have always had a fondness for the Des Moines class CAs. I have always thought they are the best heavy gun cruisers ever built. Yet they were kind of an afterthought, because they were gun based ships which commissioned during the dawn of the missile age. Had they commissioned 5 or 10 years earlier in order to see service in WWII, I think they would have been considered revolutionary. But instead they fell into the postwar period and slip into obscurity.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Rincewind   » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:24 pm

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For the period 1793 to 1815 & beyond the vote for my favourite ship would be HMS Canopus.

Formerly the French Franklin & captured at the Battle of the Nile in 1798 she was bought into British service & was described as Nelson's greatest prize. Furthermore after the end of the Napoleonic Wars her lines formed the basis of a new class of 84 gun ships. She was also refitted & remained in active service to as late as the 1840s where she was used in a trial with the latest British 80 gun ships designed by William Symonds. Ironically she did better in heavier weather than the Symondite 80s, a curious reversal of the normal situation where British built ships did better in heavier weather whereas French ships did better in lighter weather.

Coincidentally I would argue that the period after the end of the Napoleonic Wars marked the era when wooden sailing ships attained their ultimate form. Certainly the structural reforms of Seppings & the growth in hull size that this allowed as well as the advance amongst the calibre & weight in armaments bears this out. It is only that they were overshadowed by the Industrial Revolution & the introduction of steam powered, iron hulled ships.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Lord Skimper   » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:40 am

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Pocket Battleships. Admiral Graf Spee for example.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:25 am

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Henry Brown wrote:Since you say favorite ships: I have always had a fondness for the Des Moines class CAs. I have always thought they are the best heavy gun cruisers ever built. Yet they were kind of an afterthought, because they were gun based ships which commissioned during the dawn of the missile age. Had they commissioned 5 or 10 years earlier in order to see service in WWII, I think they would have been considered revolutionary. But instead they fell into the postwar period and slip into obscurity.

I agree (of-course the last ever will most likely be the best) but they were designed in 1943 pre-missile so I classify them as "W". These proposed "war" constructions that didn't make it in time (such as USS Worcester and HMS Vanguard) are why I specified "M" as 'Missile/Jet' era.
And, Yes I think Albany was a very interesting conversion, but missile is missile. We still had Mk-11 and Mk-16s when I was in Gun School, so with an electronic/FC/Radar upgrade, she could (assuming she still existed) be brought up to modern standards and be able to fire modern missiles. the last mod of the Mk-11 & 16 could both fire Harpoon. The MK-12 may need replaced (80s replacement with perhaps a Mk-13/22 or a Mk26) modern replacement with VLS - MK-41, Sea Sparrow or RIM-162 ESSM. The Mk-11/13 could only use the Standard SM-1 but that was only an electronic/FC limit. upgrades to the FC/Radar (which would be required anyway with the removal of Talos) would allow use of the modern SM-2 or 3.
Good Model (kit-bash) Ideas. :)
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:37 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:Pocket Battleships. Admiral Graf Spee for example.
I have quite a few in my 2400scale collection. They are an interesting (and comparatively successful) compromise design. Some sources classify them as super heavy cruisers (CB, along with the Alaska's) but they must be classified as "Battleships" for 2 reasons 1 they were designed by Germany as Battleships - replacements for their aging pre-dreadnoughts, within the strict limits of Versailles, and 2, they were more powerful than any pre-dreadnought battleship.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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