SPOILERS==Shadow of Victory Comments, Queries and Opinions

... So, when does the next book come out?

(And, are we done with filling in the backstory?)

I'm going to agree with the general consensus that this is retreading too much older ground. That said, there is some new information here:
First, some people seem a lot more convinced the Solarian League is ultimately going to survive in some form than they were in the last couple of books. Honor was talking about taking them out of play permanently and that sort of idea seems off the table right now. Also, there was talk about several other Core Worlds walking, but that seems gone now.
Also, we've seen the Alignments current generation shipkiller, and its a piece of crap. Honestly, its apparently significantly worse than what the Andy's put together before they got Manticorian tech, and I was assuming that was a more or less hard floor.

1923 (PD)

1923 (PD) / It seems like a very good year / A very good year, I feel I never will see / 1923 (PD) / 1923 (PD)

Lyrics by Grabthar

Music inspired by Homer Simpson ( When I was 17 )

Ps: I bought the EARC, I will buy the finished title and the printed book when it comes out. I hugely enjoy reading David Weber ( I suspect I would enjoy reading even his shopping lists ) I especially enjoy the Honorverse. However it seems to me that forward progress in this glorious setting is best described as.

Excruciatingly incremental.

Everyone else has pretty much summed up my views on this book. The only real plot advancement was getting Tourville to the Talbott Quadrant (yay!), Maya entering an official alliance with Manticore, and showing the immediate aftermath of the invasion of Mesa.

I am really questioning if Weber will be able to wrap up the rest of the series in one book. I'm worried he won't be able to do so without cutting things arbitrarily short. Was it really worth it to use one of the two remaining books for more backstory? He could have put this into a bunch of short stories.

My hope is that he will instead abandon his plan and give the series the conclusion it deserves. Besides, I'm sure he wouldn't mind more money.

Torlek wrote:While the book is well writen I am disappointed by the overall story.
The Firebrand makes clandestine contact -> delivers weapons -> revolt breaks out -> RNM arrives in the last moment/early enough is interesting. But we did not need that story like 5 times, even through RFC added a nice little variation to each of them.

Yeah, that does seem just a little excessive. I think RFC just likes to write about revolutions to overthrow corrupt plutocratic regimes. Might be a little RL leaking into the story line?

Torlek wrote:
We did not need the whole MA implements Houdini ruthlessly story line, that fact was very well established. The only new thing was Albrecht Detweiler not making it, which also did not make sense. It is not like the GA knew who to look for. He could have easily laid low for a little while, tried to get to Darius later and only suicided if and when he got caught.

I pretty much thought that they were all out by the time of the "Audubon Ballroom" nuclear blasts. It may have been a way of getting Albrecht off the scene, leaving his six sons, who now have to pick up the pieces. It also gives them room to rethink the plan. If the intent was to get Albrecht off the scene, then it makes more sense than having his yacht run into one of the hazards of the higher hyper bands, the rubber chickens from Andromeda.

Torlek wrote:I did not like the whole Mike gathers forces story line. She could have scrounged some ground troopers from Talbot split her forces and take out Mesa and Meyers at the same time. Both systems were essentially undefended compared to her naval strength and time was of the essence.

Mike hit Meyers to take out an SL sector captial and also to collect evidence of Mesan complicity in the attacks on the Talbot quadrant. She didn't feel she had enough evidence to attack Mesa at that time, even though she was certain that they were behind it.

No military commander wants to split cis forces. Especially if ce doesn't think ce can be in both places at the same time.

Torlek wrote:What was the point of the whole Zachariah McBryde and the Gaul story line in Cauldron of Ghosts if he arrives in Darrius anyway. I assuming that character does something relevant at some point.

Most of us were assuming that he had a critical part to play in finding Felix and then Darius. By getting him to Darius, RFC closed off one of the five possible ways of finding Felix and Darius that's been discussed. He also closed off the Simoes possibility in a post here, leaving just three.

1) They stumble on the Renaissance Factor
2) Good intelligence work traces either the Houdini evacuation or the Streak Drive C&C chain
3) Blind luck.

Torlek wrote:Also what is the point of establishing another group of SL officers getting suspicious about things independently from al-Fanudahi and then deciding to work with al-Fanudahi, when al-Fanudahi is already established

Why not?

Bill Woods wrote:... So, when does the next book come out?

(And, are we done with filling in the backstory?)

The last I heard, the next book is the last one, and it's supposed to be out in early 2018, at the anniversary of the release of On Basilisk Station. Of course, RFC has been known to change his mind on occasion.

There was talk of a second series, and then there was talk of no second series.

JohnRoth wrote:Most of us were assuming that he had a critical part to play in finding Felix and then Darius. By getting him to Darius, RFC closed off one of the five possible ways of finding Felix and Darius that's been discussed. He also closed off the Simoes possibility in a post here, leaving just three.

1) They stumble on the Renaissance Factor
2) Good intelligence work traces either the Houdini evacuation or the Streak Drive C&C chain
3) Blind luck.

Mmmm... the Alliance already knows there's a wormhole terminus at Torch. The only survey ship they sent into it never returned. However, if they get sufficiently curious about where it goes, they might try something on the order of a SD for one of their exploratory ventures. Since the Alignment ships waiting to pounce at the other end realistically only expect a survey ship, and not a ship of the wall, doing so could lead to the Alliance discovering "the Twins" and on to Darius.

As for tracing a Houdini route, after all they've done to preserve any actual factual evidence of their existence, I can't really see the Alignment letting any of the ships (or their crews) who participated in Houdini to stick around afterwards. Especially since they belong to Jessyk, Manpower, etc; and aren't the Alignment's per se. Vaporized ships and dead men tell few tales.

Blind luck is always a possibility.

It could also be that since the Alliance has Simoes, he might be able to create a working prototype of the streak drive; equip some alliance vessel with it, and possibly follow some agent-provocateur back to Darius when they head back home. Perhaps the person posing as a Manticorean to Maya.

OrlandoNative wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:Most of us were assuming that he had a critical part to play in finding Felix and then Darius. By getting him to Darius, RFC closed off one of the five possible ways of finding Felix and Darius that's been discussed. He also closed off the Simoes possibility in a post here, leaving just three.

1) They stumble on the Renaissance Factor
2) Good intelligence work traces either the Houdini evacuation or the Streak Drive C&C chain
3) Blind luck.

Mmmm... the Alliance already knows there's a wormhole terminus at Torch. The only survey ship they sent into it never returned. However, if they get sufficiently curious about where it goes, they might try something on the order of a SD for one of their exploratory ventures. Since the Alignment ships waiting to pounce at the other end realistically only expect a survey ship, and not a ship of the wall, doing so could lead to the Alliance discovering "the Twins" and on to Darius.

This dead horse has been flogged to a pulp. There's no way of tracing it from the Torch end until Mannerheim quits fortifying it - which will be way too late for the plot purposes.

OrlandoNative wrote:As for tracing a Houdini route, after all they've done to preserve any actual factual evidence of their existence, I can't really see the Alignment letting any of the ships (or their crews) who participated in Houdini to stick around afterwards. Especially since they belong to Jessyk, Manpower, etc; and aren't the Alignment's per se. Vaporized ships and dead men tell few tales.

Does the phrase "gilding the lily" sound familiar? Although blowing up a few Manpower stations has a certain appeal, one of the standard detective fiction tropes is the thief who is caught because he took a few too many precautions, and the detective used those precautions to find him.

OrlandoNative wrote:Blind luck is always a possibility.

It could also be that since the Alliance has Simoes, he might be able to create a working prototype of the streak drive; equip some alliance vessel with it, and possibly follow some agent-provocateur back to Darius when they head back home. Perhaps the person posing as a Manticorean to Maya.

Well, we're all assuming that Simoes will be able to help develop the Streak Drive, again though, it won't be soon enough to matter.

OrlandoNative wrote:

noblehunter wrote:Manty stealth systems. It'll be conspiracy theory level thinking but accusing the Mesan Alignment will sound the same, if one already doubts its existence.

Though it seems like the timing of the bombs would demonstrate a single point source for the detonation command. They might even be able to pinpoint Albrecht's location.

I sort of doubt you could stealth something like that. It's like one of our rocket re-entries, it's not exactly hard to miss with the glowing from air friction.

You're talking about speed of light. On a planetary surface. And "timings" would be on the order of nanoseconds or maybe microseconds. Not exactly easy to measure without at least some preparation.

In any case, since Albrecht was at "ground zero" of one of the larger nukes, I sort of doubt you're going to find any trace of him. Or his wife.

Timings aren't that tight. A nanosecond is a light foot. 3.3 microseconds is a light kilometer. Sensors in the Honorverse should have no trouble with microseconds and can probably do well better.

Aside: I once wrote out a quantitative answer to the old bromide of which bullet hits the ground first a bullet shot horizontally or one dropped at the same time. It is trivial to show that an observer at the gun will measure the bullet dropped at the gun to hit the ground before the shot bullet is observed to hit because of this microsecond level light speed travel time. The teacher was not happy.

jgnfld wrote:Timings aren't that tight. A nanosecond is a light foot. 3.3 microseconds is a light kilometer. Sensors in the Honorverse should have no trouble with microseconds and can probably do well better.

Perhaps. But they'd have to be watching and *recording* the proper place at the proper time.