Honorverse system destroyer

Somtaaw wrote:Yeah he was only an apprentice at the time, but he was also pretty far ahead of the others in raw talent, but he just had all that rage from the years he spent as a slave that he was ripe pickings for the Sith ghost.

And I think the only reason the Jedi Academy accepted him back was the "well you were possessed, it's ok" excuse, cause the Jedi were always sort of above the laws of lesser mortals throughout every bit of Star Wars, pre-Disney lore.

Also, there was a bit of a question of who had Jurisdiction. Being an Ex slave, I'm not sure he was actually a citizen of any nation at that point, and the system that he blew up was effectively independent. So I'm not sure who actually had jurisdiction to arrest him.

Even the kinetic energy of an SD going full-out (at 0.7c) into the Sun would be "only" about 180 yottojoules. The Sun puts out over twice that many joules every second. So even that probably wouldn't be enough energy to make the Sun explode.

Actually making a lower-mass star like the Sun have a supernova is likely very hard because the mass of the star (and the resulting gravitational force of the collapse) is a very important factor in how big an "explosion" you can achieve. Even if you torture the Sun in some way it is unlikely to be able to create much of a supernova just because it isn't big enough.

Somtaaw wrote:Yeah he was only an apprentice at the time, but he was also pretty far ahead of the others in raw talent, but he just had all that rage from the years he spent as a slave that he was ripe pickings for the Sith ghost.

And I think the only reason the Jedi Academy accepted him back was the "well you were possessed, it's ok" excuse, cause the Jedi were always sort of above the laws of lesser mortals throughout every bit of Star Wars, pre-Disney lore.

Actually, they WERE the law. They were not a "military" force, for 1000 years the Jedi were the intra-galactic law enforcement service of the Old Republic, they were the ones who made the arrests, local systems had their own enforcement for local issues, not galactic/interstellar issues. For that or anything Sith related, (as shown in eps.1) they called in a Jedi. So, jurisdiction would fall to the Jedi.

Eagleeye wrote:Then he should go to the dark side of the force ... preferably yesterday or the day before. To be a Jedi does not fit with the fact to be a mass murderer. There is simply no excuse imaginable to willingly bring a star to explosion and kill millions or even billions of (intelligent) beings.

As said, he was a kid, an apprentice, then he listened to the ghost (energy form) of the Sith Lord who had the temples on Yavin 4 built for him and took the Sun Crusher from the center of Yavin Prime and blew up the star that the Imperial academy world (Stormtrooper training center) was orbiting. But then repented (found out at the last minute his brother was there - died) and went on to become a Jedi. Still some dark-side - led schism in the Jedi order against Luke during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Luke was trying to maintain that the purpose of the Jedi is "Protecting the weak" - DEFEND - where Kyp wanted to "Defend the Galaxy" - Attack the threat Offensive means. They never say it but I think that is one difference between a Jedi "Knight" and "Master" a personal confrontation with the dark side that you overcome to gain control over the urges of the Dark Side.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:Even the kinetic energy of an SD going full-out (at 0.7c) into the Sun would be "only" about 180 yottojoules. The Sun puts out over twice that many joules every second. So even that probably wouldn't be enough energy to make the Sun explode.

Actually making a lower-mass star like the Sun have a supernova is likely very hard because the mass of the star (and the resulting gravitational force of the collapse) is a very important factor in how big an "explosion" you can achieve. Even if you torture the Sun in some way it is unlikely to be able to create much of a supernova just because it isn't big enough.

I've seen some scary estimates as to what would be needed to explode a star and it's well within what a kamikaze starship could do. The main energy release would come from the star itself--all you need is a sufficient concentration of energy to locally push the temperature to the point of rapid hydrogen fusion. If the math is right you get a shockwave that's powerful enough that you have rapid fusion as it passes--making it even more powerful. A decent portion of the star gets converted to helium.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:Even the kinetic energy of an SD going full-out (at 0.7c) into the Sun would be "only" about 180 yottojoules. The Sun puts out over twice that many joules every second. So even that probably wouldn't be enough energy to make the Sun explode.

Actually making a lower-mass star like the Sun have a supernova is likely very hard because the mass of the star (and the resulting gravitational force of the collapse) is a very important factor in how big an "explosion" you can achieve. Even if you torture the Sun in some way it is unlikely to be able to create much of a supernova just because it isn't big enough.

I've seen some scary estimates as to what would be needed to explode a star and it's well within what a kamikaze starship could do. The main energy release would come from the star itself--all you need is a sufficient concentration of energy to locally push the temperature to the point of rapid hydrogen fusion. If the math is right you get a shockwave that's powerful enough that you have rapid fusion as it passes--making it even more powerful. A decent portion of the star gets converted to helium.

The problem is any "suicidal" kamikaze ship in the Honorverse has to actually survive, relatively intact, to physically impact a star to even try to get any effect to happen.

And their particle screens, and even sidewalls + a bow wall aren't enough to get the wedge to make physical contact with a star to pull it off. The screens would fail well before the ship makes contact, the sidewalls + bow-wall might last a little longer than the particle and other screens, but still wouldn't last long enough to cover the ship the whole way. And once those screens and sidewalls drop, the ship itself would physically start melting before impact, which would quickly cause deformation around the impeller nodes would would quickly cause the wedge to fail, again all before impact.

And without the wedge, even a 7 million ton superdreadnought moving at 0.7c or higher isn't going to make a notable dent in a stars mass and/or cause some form of flare, or other activity. Assuming of course, that in the time of melting the ship doesn't actually pull apart into two or more distinct pieces, which would split the mass up.


Would need a napkin math warrior to actually start crunching the numbers, but I highly doubt without an active/intact wedge an Honorverse ship could ever affect a star.

Somtaaw wrote:The problem is any "suicidal" kamikaze ship in the Honorverse has to actually survive, relatively intact, to physically impact a star to even try to get any effect to happen.

And their particle screens, and even sidewalls + a bow wall aren't enough to get the wedge to make physical contact with a star to pull it off. The screens would fail well before the ship makes contact, the sidewalls + bow-wall might last a little longer than the particle and other screens, but still wouldn't last long enough to cover the ship the whole way. And once those screens and sidewalls drop, the ship itself would physically start melting before impact, which would quickly cause deformation around the impeller nodes would would quickly cause the wedge to fail, again all before impact.

And without the wedge, even a 7 million ton superdreadnought moving at 0.7c or higher isn't going to make a notable dent in a stars mass and/or cause some form of flare, or other activity. Assuming of course, that in the time of melting the ship doesn't actually pull apart into two or more distinct pieces, which would split the mass up.

Would need a napkin math warrior to actually start crunching the numbers, but I highly doubt without an active/intact wedge an Honorverse ship could ever affect a star.

I would expect the particle shielding and any kind of bow-wall to fail spectacularly a microsecond before the ship turns to plasma since the bow-shock created by the particles streaming from a star will be like running the ship into a wall at those speeds.

Joat42 wrote:And without the wedge, even a 7 million ton superdreadnought moving at 0.7c or higher isn't going to make a notable dent in a stars mass and/or cause some form of flare, or other activity.

Oh, I think it would cause some activity, not a nova but at that speed, certainly a small flare.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:Actually making a lower-mass star like the Sun have a supernova is likely very hard because the mass of the star (and the resulting gravitational force of the collapse) is a very important factor in how big an "explosion" you can achieve. Even if you torture the Sun in some way it is unlikely to be able to create much of a supernova just because it isn't big enough.

A Dwarf star like the sun would never be able to "supernova". That term is often overused like "light-years" or "intergalactic".

Adding the prefix "super-" distinguishes supernovae from ordinary novae, which are far less luminous

.Supernova are only possible with supermassive stars like blue giants. anything smaller might be forced to 'Nova' but not 'Supernova'.

MAD-4A wrote:

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:Actually making a lower-mass star like the Sun have a supernova is likely very hard because the mass of the star (and the resulting gravitational force of the collapse) is a very important factor in how big an "explosion" you can achieve. Even if you torture the Sun in some way it is unlikely to be able to create much of a supernova just because it isn't big enough.

A Dwarf star like the sun would never be able to "supernova". That term is often overused like "light-years" or "intergalactic".

Adding the prefix "super-" distinguishes supernovae from ordinary novae, which are far less luminous

.Supernova are only possible with supermassive stars like blue giants. anything smaller might be forced to 'Nova' but not 'Supernova'.

It depends on the star type, the mass of the star when it forms, where in time the star is in its life cycle, plus whether the star has a companion. See Supernova for details.

Ummm... no.

What Loren described would be a sort-of 'no degenerate' Type 1a supernova, which accumulating evidence indicates involves one or 2 white dwarfs up near the Chandrasekhar limit but still far from the mass range for core-collapse SNe. Shock-induced deflagration/detonation is the essential element of the Type 1a models, but it's pretty dependent on the density of the white dwarf[s] involved. I would expect that it is _possible_ to induce that kind of burning in a normal star, but I'd need a fair bit of convincing that it wouldn't be self-damping and even more convincing that the rate of energy release would be high enough to actually disrupt the star - something that is _extremely_ hard to do. [AAMOF, the #1 difficulty in supernova modelling, particularly in massive stars, is getting the damn things to blow up!] I can't imagine any physical mechanism that would do it, though.

MAD-4A wrote:

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:Actually making a lower-mass star like the Sun have a supernova is likely very hard because the mass of the star (and the resulting gravitational force of the collapse) is a very important factor in how big an "explosion" you can achieve. Even if you torture the Sun in some way it is unlikely to be able to create much of a supernova just because it isn't big enough.

A Dwarf star like the sun would never be able to "supernova". That term is often overused like "light-years" or "intergalactic".

Adding the prefix "super-" distinguishes supernovae from ordinary novae, which are far less luminous

.Supernova are only possible with supermassive stars like blue giants. anything smaller might be forced to 'Nova' but not 'Supernova'.