ATST Snippet #4

WeberFan wrote:he defenders than mortars might have been.

And as the Germans and French proved at the outset of the Second World War, there are always around fixed fortifications. We've seen Charis pin fortifications and shell them into submission. We've seen Green Valley's previously employed strategy of pinning a strongly-fortified position and moving on to other objectives (although the facility was later captured by the "explosives in the tunnel" trick). We've seen the Church forces assault them time and time again - trusting in sheer numbers to overwhelm the defenses. I just can't see the ICA or the Siddarmarkians engaging in a frontal assault. The phrase "Hit em where they ain't" comes to mind. Even with a 3-million-man field force, you can't be everywhere at the same time in strength. I foresee a period of stagnation on the front, with a new ICA field force pulling an Inchon-like assault... Just like Caleb's work to bypass the Corisandan plug in the Dark Hills Mountains pass between Dairos and Manchyr.

The general idea of fixed fortifications is not to hold the enemy indefinitedly: the general idea is to hold the enemy long enough, so reserves could be maneuvered on the position to stop the assault.

And the effectivness of fixed defenses is generally linked to the effectivness of firearms. Even mid-XIX century firearms basically tended to make assaults on the fortifications VERY costly - of course, assuming that one side didn't make any obvious mistakes.

And on some level... well, basically you have World War I in all her pointless bloodshed glory, and you couldn't do anything about this until tanks appeared.

runsforcelery wrote:Type alert! Typo alert! That was supposed to be "And one that isn't out of sequence!"

I was so busy checking the snippet for formatting that I didn't proof that one sentence intro.

For reference here's another

ATST wrote:"and that allowed Rainbow Waters to pull his right flank in closer, building an even deeper and better defended defensive zone between the Allies and the Holy Langhorne Cabal,"

Also also the text seems unclear who is doing what and who is being addressed in this sequence with regard to Zhyngbau and Rungwyn. I.e. the names or ranks seem mixed up.

ATST wrote:' It was possible, he conceded, that Rungwyn had a point.

And perhaps you should have looked first yourself before you began spouting opinions, Medyng. How often has Uncle Taychau suggested that to you? It doesn’t always follow that something which looks irresistible truly is.

“I believe you may have a point, Lord of Foot,” he said as he straightened his back. “I propose we go and take a closer look.”

“But not too precipitously, My Lord,” Zhyngbau put in. Wind Song looked at him, and the captain of horse shrugged.'

runsforcelery wrote:
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and that allowed Rainbow Waters to pull his right flank in closer, building an even deeper and better defended defensive zone between the Allies and the Holy Langhorne Cabal, the lynchpin of the Church’s northern logistics . (Emphasis added)

Does anyone remember if the Holy Langhorne Canal is the one with the sheer 400 foot steep-sided cut thru solid granite?

If it is, it sounds like a perfect spot to do some midnight emplacement of lwysite (dynamite) in a long series of holes above the canal cut designed to put megatons of rock down into miles of the canal, blocking it for months, maybe a year.

Say, just after the start of the Spring offensive, so the Grand Inquisitor will insist that the armies continue advancing since they have ALL those supplies built up.

dobriennm wrote:
Does anyone remember if the Holy Langhorne Canal is the one with the sheer 400 foot steep-sided cut thru solid granite?

If it is, it sounds like a perfect spot to do some midnight emplacement of lwysite (dynamite) in a long series of holes above the canal cut designed to put megatons of rock down into miles of the canal, blocking it for months, maybe a year.

Say, just after the start of the Spring offensive, so the Grand Inquisitor will insist that the armies continue advancing since they have ALL those supplies built up.

Vandalism.

Quite possibly the religious problem also. If I'm not mistaken, the Holy Langhorne Canal was supposed to be created by Archangel's themselves? I really doubt that Charisian engineers would be eager to blast it...

runsforcelery wrote:Type alert! Typo alert! That was supposed to be "And one that isn't out of sequence!"

I was so busy checking the snippet for formatting that I didn't proof that one sentence intro.

That's ok. While it was probably the most *obvious* typo in your first post, it certainly wasn't the only one. There were quite a few within the snippet itself.

dobriennm wrote:If it is, it sounds like a perfect spot to do some midnight emplacement of lwysite (dynamite) in a long series of holes above the canal cut designed to put megatons of rock down into miles of the canal, blocking it for months, maybe a year.

That sounds like the sort of damage the ICA does NOT want to do to any canal. Religious reasons aside, the ICA wouldn't be able to repair and use the canal themselves.

Blowing locks, sinking barges, and other temporary interruptions of canal traffic will serve the same purpose of disrupting MHoG logistics without depriving Charis of the canal after they advance.

Dilandu wrote:

dobriennm wrote:
Does anyone remember if the Holy Langhorne Canal is the one with the sheer 400 foot steep-sided cut thru solid granite?

If it is, it sounds like a perfect spot to do some midnight emplacement of lwysite (dynamite) in a long series of holes above the canal cut designed to put megatons of rock down into miles of the canal, blocking it for months, maybe a year.

Say, just after the start of the Spring offensive, so the Grand Inquisitor will insist that the armies continue advancing since they have ALL those supplies built up.

Vandalism.

Quite possibly the religious problem also. If I'm not mistaken, the Holy Langhorne Canal was supposed to be created by Archangel's themselves? I really doubt that Charisian engineers would be eager to blast it...

I was thinking this would be a sejinn job behind enemy lines (of course explaining to everyone how they did it would take some fancy footwork). So it would have some "okay" from the "holy sejinns". Plus, everyone's been sabotaging canals since "Schuler's Sword" that the prohibition has probably worn a little thin.

But think of the possibilities - this might even isolate the Temple from the main armies (would need to look at a good map). Then the Temple might be vulnerable to a Charis amphibious landing and quick march overland.

Weird Harold wrote:

dobriennm wrote:If it is, it sounds like a perfect spot to do some midnight emplacement of lwysite (dynamite) in a long series of holes above the canal cut designed to put megatons of rock down into miles of the canal, blocking it for months, maybe a year.

That sounds like the sort of damage the ICA does NOT want to do to any canal. Religious reasons aside, the ICA wouldn't be able to repair and use the canal themselves.

Blowing locks, sinking barges, and other temporary interruptions of canal traffic will serve the same purpose of disrupting MHoG logistics without depriving Charis of the canal after they advance.

Not really, both sides have pilled rocks in canals before to deny them to the enemy, this would just be on a bigger scale. And I think it was 40 foot sides, not 400, I remember reading that section and thinking the walls weren't that big, really.

And I think the more likely strategy from the Allies at this point will be simply wait until the Church runs out of money, I don't think they have more then a years supply of cash left at this point.

Just thinking....

Rainbow Waters is making a big mistake here although given his situation a very understandable one. He is trying to make a virtue out of his lack if mobility by forting up.

Agile allied armies can march rings around him and I wouldn't be surprised if by spring the Alliance isn't able to field over 1.5 million men, particularly as the rate the Protector is able to stand up new regiments continues to increase with the ever more abundant supply of weapons both coming from Charis and locally produced.

I think that it was Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest who is credited with the comment that the winner in a battle is the one "who gets there firstest with the mostest." That is the essence of Rainbow Waters' problem. As badly as his army is spread out, even given the size if his forces, there is no way that he can bring enough men to bear on all of the possible places the allies can strike. This has huge implications, not only for his logistics, but also for the danger that he will find segments of his army cut off and defeated in detail. That, of course, is the vulnerability of any strategy built around a static defense.

Another thought, the odds against the allies population wise have decreased from over 10 to 1 after Darcos Sound to about 1.5 to 1 currently. Just one way to measure progress.

Don

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SCC wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:quote="dobriennm"If it is, it sounds like a perfect spot to do some midnight emplacement of lwysite (dynamite) in a long series of holes above the canal cut designed to put megatons of rock down into miles of the canal, blocking it for months, maybe a year. /quote

That sounds like the sort of damage the ICA does NOT want to do to any canal. Religious reasons aside, the ICA wouldn't be able to repair and use the canal themselves.

Blowing locks, sinking barges, and other temporary interruptions of canal traffic will serve the same purpose of disrupting MHoG logistics without depriving Charis of the canal after they advance.

Not really, both sides have piled rocks in canals before to deny them to the enemy, this would just be on a bigger scale. ...

Exactly. The ICA doesn't need to drop "mega-tons of rock" when a few tons will do the job and be less work to undo when they advance.

There is also the manpower required to repair the canal to consider. Block it with too many tons of rock and the manpower required becomes zero because it is obviously impossible to repair under wartime conditions. Block it with something less and the CoGA will pull a regiment or two from the fighting to work on the canal.

Wait until the CoGA has just cleared -- or nearly cleared -- the canal and then take it away from them or block it again.