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Possible way to take out the OBS

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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by n7axw   » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:43 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
n7axw wrote:My two cents...for what it's worth, probably very little!

I think that what we have here are six cells under one control center. The cells are orbiting the planet, spread out to cover all of Safehold. The control center orbits above the Temple for direct line of sight between the two. The control center is probably the most heavily defended and what Owl tried to attack.

This is only one plausible scenario. But I don't think that it makes sense to talk about the system being centralized if you are talking about six cells.

Don

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I really doubt that you need centralized control for the relatively simple system.


Perhaps not. But how simple is it, really? I could visualise the control system being a bit more sophisticated to assess level of threat or deciding what needed it be swatted on the ground. The fact is, we don't know.

Don

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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:08 pm

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Dilandu wrote:And, if you want the explanation that cover ALL factors - here it is:

- The current state of Rakurai Array is "standby mode". I.e. the platforms are NOT supposed to be used in that mode. They are positioned - probably in Lagrange points, to save energy and reaction mass - so, that they would be as safe as possible, but they aren't currently able to launch strikes execept against area targets.

- When the Archangels returns (and if they decided to use Rakurai) the array would be repositioned on the geostationary orbits around the planet, to provide all-around cover of all planetary surface.

I.e., when the War ended, the Archangels put the Rakurai array on standby mode util their eventual return. They moved the bombardment platforms from low orbits to the Lagrange point - where they could hung indefinitedly, without many corrections - and surrounded them with defense platforms. So the array would hung there, safe and solid, outside from any danger.

When Archangels return, they would switch the array in ready mode - i.e. they would move the platforms on more effective orbits, from where they would be able to provide total coverage of Safehold surface.

How is THAT as explanation? :)

As long as you are talking about L4 or L5. L1, L2, L3 are unstable points that effectively have positive feedback, as opposed to the negative feedback with respect to perturbations.
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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by Joat42   » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:51 am

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Duckk wrote:
Joat42 wrote:So, my suggestion still stand. Use sand to ablate the solar array. The fusion reactor kicks in so the maintenance system can fix the problem. Then you just keep ablating the solar array which means the fusion reactor has to be running the whole time.

It's trivial to get the OBS to expend energy continuously. At some point it has to refuel.


Only if you persist in thinking that the OBS is just a dumb cannon floating in space, and that the designers couldn't take precautions against obvious threats a 10 year old would have come up with.

Congratulations, you successfully attacked the OBS (assuming it doesn't have other defensive systems). What else does it do? Does a simple program recognize it's gone into degraded operation and thus activate any number of contingencies? Does it decide to just level all the population centers on the (good) assumption it's hostile human action and thus needs to be neutralized before it goes offline? Does it wake up whatever is under the Temple? Something worse than that? As David said before, this is a mistake you only get to make once. If nothing happens, great, but you still have the Temple to deal with. If something does happen, then that's it, game over.

PS: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6161&p=158146

The point I was making is that it is most likely possible to take out the OBS with what Merlin has at hand. On the other hand, if you care what happens afterwards it's a totally different proposition. :)

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:54 am

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Joat42 wrote:The point I was making is that it is most likely possible to take out the OBS with what Merlin has at hand. On the other hand, if you care what happens afterwards it's a totally different proposition. :)


Owl, at the very least, was unable to deduce the way to deal with OBS, using only his own resources. I.e. the Rakurai Array probably have more means of defense than just lasers.
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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by Joat42   » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:11 am

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Dilandu wrote:
Joat42 wrote:The point I was making is that it is most likely possible to take out the OBS with what Merlin has at hand. On the other hand, if you care what happens afterwards it's a totally different proposition. :)


Owl, at the very least, was unable to deduce the way to deal with OBS, using only his own resources. I.e. the Rakurai Array probably have more means of defense than just lasers.

That deduction was made when he was newly awakened and very literal minded.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by Duckk   » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 am

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We know next to nothing about the OBS. All we know is that it has at least 1 form of active defense. We do not know if that's the only defense. Space is an unforgiving environment. Even with Federation tech, one does not hang an orbital installation up in space for centuries without it being capable of resisting it. I would expect - at the very minimum - a light shield system designed to resist micrometeorites and the solar wind, which would make any sand attack infeasible.
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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:09 am

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Joat42 wrote:That deduction was made when he was newly awakened and very literal minded.


Even then Owl was still a tactical machine, which main goal was military functions. I.e. he hardly was less effective in pure military parts.

And he still doesn't know much about OBS. The real capabilities of Rakurai array still enigma to all of them - Owl, Merlin & Co. So, it's pointless to deduce any strategy by now - because they mau just have defense against that.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Possible way to take out the OBS
Post by Max   » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:34 pm

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Hmm...

IIRC, even the L4 and L5 points are only meta-stable. They provide a trapping region, but do not allow arbitrary accretion. The main advantage of L4 and L5 is the relatively small delta V needed to get there, but I have not run any models so my understanding is only intuitive rather than computational. Over the long term, any high orbit would probably be just about as usable.

So there would be orbit management hardware built into the system. Possibly ion engines sucking up ambient hydrogen for reaction mass or, more likely, some form of solar sail.

It would be fairly stealthy to keep the Gbaba from getting wind of it, but that might not be all that difficult if the number of components that need coordination is small enough...

Max
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