about the alignment (sort of spoilers)

Sheriff Yoda wrote:Really? I know that other than the slave issue is the issue of genetic manipulation, which is also a big deal with Mesa, is that the end they are going for?

The eternal unresponsiveness of the League coupled with the various bureaucrats in Mesa's pocket is what allows the slave trade to exist at all. Destroying the League does nothing to protect genetic slavery. Why would the Alignment destroy that which protects their business unless that business is just a sham for something else?

jeremysaint wrote:thank-you duckk.

i did read those books, but for some reason i dont remember that part. since i read them fairly recently, and even made a post about an inconsistency with a non fatal pulser wound, i am amazed that i missed the part i actually was most interested in.

however, i would still argue that the goal you described would not require the eventual deaths of the entire manticore system, as implied in the most recent book. further, i would be very curious as to why they have to conceal the fact that the members of the alignment are themselves genetically engineered.

too bad the honorverse wikia has so little information on the mesan alignment.

You're probably going to have to help me out here, I can't recall the exact passage where the Alignment wants to depopulate the entire Manticore system. Not that they wouldn't do it in a heartbeat, of course, but they wouldn't be able to conceal that fact forever. At which point even the people the Alignment has befriended might turn on them.

Regardless, even though the Alignment is perfectly willing to kill however many people they need to get to where they want to be, that doesn't mean that they do so without first considering all the angles. You might profit from reading what David has to say on the matter:

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/en ... gton/271/1

hmm, i just reread the sections and on second reading i dont see the reference to planning to eradicate all human life in the manticore system, but i cant shake the feeling that i did read it...

if you have a chance, maybe you can expand on why the alignment needs the to create the renaisance factor to promote their agenda of genetic engineering. or for that matter, why they want to promote their agenda of genetic engineering in the first place. that last point is where this all comes apart for me. clearly they are able to perform genetic engineering with impunity in their own neck of the interstellar woods. why go to all this trouble and incredible risk, just to promote the idea elsewhere?

jeremysaint wrote:hmm, i just reread the sections and on second reading i dont see the reference to planning to eradicate all human life in the manticore system, but i cant shake the feeling that i did read it...

if you have a chance, maybe you can expand on why the alignment needs the to create the renaisance factor to promote their agenda of genetic engineering. or for that matter, why they want to promote their agenda of genetic engineering in the first place. that last point is where this all comes apart for me. clearly they are able to perform genetic engineering with impunity in their own neck of the interstellar woods. why go to all this trouble and incredible risk, just to promote the idea elsewhere?

Who knows what the exact reasons are, maybe they don't remember what they are anymore, I mean it's been in process for over 300 years or so? I mean how many Wars or Genocide happen here on Earth over stupid meaningless things.

Megalomania has always puzzled me, in that while it might seem great to be THE BOSS, what sane person would want to take on the administrative and support role that goes with complete power? Lots of people want big brother to take over their life decisions for them and they will willingly give up their freedoms because of mental laziness.

jeremysaint wrote:hmm, i just reread the sections and on second reading i dont see the reference to planning to eradicate all human life in the manticore system, but i cant shake the feeling that i did read it...

if you have a chance, maybe you can expand on why the alignment needs the to create the renaisance factor to promote their agenda of genetic engineering. or for that matter, why they want to promote their agenda of genetic engineering in the first place. that last point is where this all comes apart for me. clearly they are able to perform genetic engineering with impunity in their own neck of the interstellar woods. why go to all this trouble and incredible risk, just to promote the idea elsewhere?

It's all about seizing the moral high ground. Remember, the universe at large still has lingering fear of genies thanks to Earth's Final War, and the Beowulf code which resulted has had centuries to be ingrained into the human psyche. The Mesa can't simply just come out and say "today we're going to start genetically engineering all of your children". Leonard Detweiler made no headway when he tried that centuries ago.

Thus, the Alignment has to make the galaxy change its view on genetic manipulation, hence engineering the fall of the League and creating the Renaissance Factor.

jeremysaint wrote:hmm, i just reread the sections and on second reading i dont see the reference to planning to eradicate all human life in the manticore system, but i cant shake the feeling that i did read it...

There was a posting by David Weber that mentioned that the MA wasn't seriously opposed to sterilizing the entire Manticore system, they were just unconvinced that it was essential and knew that eventually someone would figure out who the only viable suspects were.

jeremysaint wrote:if you have a chance, maybe you can expand on why the alignment needs the to create the renaisance factor to promote their agenda of genetic engineering. or for that matter, why they want to promote their agenda of genetic engineering in the first place. that last point is where this all comes apart for me. clearly they are able to perform genetic engineering with impunity in their own neck of the interstellar woods. why go to all this trouble and incredible risk, just to promote the idea elsewhere?

It's similar to the way the Nazi's "promoted" the idea of a jew-free Europe. At gun point all across Europe. The MA doesn't want to "promote" their agenda, they want to impose their agenda. And because their secret agenda, which functionally amounts to redesigning people's children to be slaves of the Alignment elite, isn't going to be well accepted, they intend to not explain it.

jeremysaint wrote:thank-you duckk.

i did read those books, but for some reason i dont remember that part. since i read them fairly recently, and even made a post about an inconsistency with a non fatal pulser wound, i am amazed that i missed the part i actually was most interested in.

however, i would still argue that the goal you described would not require the eventual deaths of the entire manticore system, as implied in the most recent book. further, i would be very curious as to why they have to conceal the fact that the members of the alignment are themselves genetically engineered.

too bad the honorverse wikia has so little information on the mesan alignment.

DUH! I know why they want manticore so bad...Sphinx! They want unrestricted access to the treecats.

The galaxy has accepted physical adaptations to alien environments. Geenies such as Harrington and the Wintons are tolerated. However major gen engr to create a super race would provoke alarm and may be a back lash just as an ee violation would. If galaxy knew about the alpha line beta line and gamma line even the solaria league might take action. To come out into the open Mesa has to be in control of a big enough chunk of the galaxy to ensure it's security.

The genetic slave trade is not the primary goal. It is a way to make money and cover for testing new genotypes. However once Mesa is in power their goal is everyone will be GE and most will be subservient to the alphas.