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Re: ATST Snippet #1 | |
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by n7axw » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:27 pm | |
n7axw
Posts: 5997
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Just a couple comments here... I got behind on this thread.
First, after the loss of the first two Rotweilers in the Gulf, there was a discussion as to how the ICN would respond. It was decided to send another pair of Rotweilers because they were available immediately to go and reinforce Sharpfield and Sarmouth. The Cities were also discussed, but the difficulty was contacting them and getting them on their way. They had essentially completed their mission of burning out Desnair's shipyards and thus available although the question of seeing that Desnair didn't rebuild was left unaddressed. So at this point, we don't know whether a message was dispatched to send them to Sharpfield or not. The difficulty with the Haarahlds is that we really don't know how close they are to being ready to deploy. If they are close enough, then there is no need for the Cities. If not, the Cities are more than adequate for what is needed in the Gulf. On the other subject here, I agree that Dohlar needs to be held accountable for what happened to Manthyr and his people. But that should be a limited accountability. The real responsibility lies in Zion and that is where Charis must find true justice. Don - When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: ATST Snippet #1 | |
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by PeterZ » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:47 pm | |
PeterZ
Posts: 6432
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Yes, they declared they were going to wage war without restrictions. If they win, the POWs they capture would be tortured. Next Desnair prepared to launch their army at Siddermark. This showed that they were prepared to launch that all out war against Charisian allies. Charis took them at their word that Desnair would indeed fight a war consistent with their policy of no limitations at all in what they would do to allied forces. Charis responds by threatening the very sorts of atrocity Desnair had already acknowledged they would commit. That threat was never carried out, by the way. As a result of that threat, Charisian and Desnarian lives were saved. If Desnair was innocent of any atrocity, then how could Charis be any more guilty? Each side merely threatened but failed to carry out any atrocity, eh? Even if each side was dead serious about carrying out their threats, neither side actually committed any atrocities by your reconning. |
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Re: ATST Snippet #1 | |
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by DMcCunney » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:26 pm | |
DMcCunney
Posts: 453
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There was mention in an earlier book about a demand for Rahnyld's head being part of the underlying conflict between Charis and Dohlor. I think Cayleb and Sharleyan very much do want Rahnyld's head. Clyntahn may have given the orders, but Rahnyld acceded to them, and Charis wants to make the point very firmly that there are things you simply don't do, and "Mother Church told me to" will not be considered an acceptable defense.
Agreed on Cayleb and Sharleyan's pragmatic streak. It's why Cayleb might have considered letting Hector of Corisande go into exile somewhere far away with his family, instead of taking his head. But Charis' complaint against Rahnyld is a quite specific one. He handed over honorably surrendered prisoners to the Inquisition to face the Punishment in a mass auto-da-fe. This flew in the face of Safeholdian tradition about behavior during wartime. You may assume a lot of people in Dohlar and elsewhere were unhappy about it. Thirsk was only the tip of that iceberg. It set a very dangerous precedent. I can't think of any other ruler on Safehold guilty of that, and Charis has tried to make the punishment fit the crime. I don't think taking Rahnyld's head under the circumstances would be an indicator to other rulers that the Charisian Empire can't be trusted. Their response would likely be "I don't blame them. If I were Charis, and he did that to my people, I'd want the same thing!"
Once the Corisandian royal family accepted that Cayleb didn't have Prince Hector killed, and who was responsible, it was a start. Irys, Daivin, and Earl Coris meeting and spending time with Cayleb and Sharleyan and seeing what sort of people they were was a further step. Sharleyan requiring Irys to marry Hector to bind the house of Daikyn to the house of Armakh (and telling Irys to do exactly what she wanted to do in the process) completed it. Blood ties are critical on Safehold. Earl Coris was already on board. He understood Clyntahn had drawn the line, and you were on his side or Charis's. No one could be independent, and the best possible place for Corisande was with Charis. Daivyn already loved Sharleyan, and she was not merely his Empress but his mother-in-law and his friend. He loved Hector, too, and Hector marrying his sister and becoming his brother-in-law was icing on his cake.
Not hardly. Taking the head of your defeated opponent was apparently SOP in Safehold warfare. Other rulers who conquered another land would likely have not only taken the conquered land's ruler's head, but those of his family as well. Cayleb and Sharleyan are very atypical in that.
They wouldn't be. Nahrman of Emerald voluntarily surrendered and agreed to Emerald becoming a province to avoid further problems, and Gorjah of Tarot did the same. Neither were conquered by force of arms. Neither country's population had a big problem with the change, and the benefits soon became apparent. Grand Duke Zebediah committed treason and was executed, but that was only what Cayleb and Sharleyan expected of him, and the only question was when he would give them reason to take his head. Replacing him with Hauwyl Chermyn gave Zebediah good government for what appears to be the first time in its history, and most Zebediahns would probably say becoming part of the EoC was the best thing to ever happen to Zebediah. And note that this policy was applied to lands that became part of the Empire of Charis. I don't think Cayleb and Sharleyan want Dohlar as an imperial province, and I don't think it needs to be. They want a change of management in Dohlar and Dohlar out of the Jihad and no longer actively fighting Charis. I don't see an actual conquest needed to achieve that end. A change in management that resulted in Rahnyld's death but left his heir in line for the throne and his house still the royal house might go down easiest in Dohlar. _______ Dennis |
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