Another out of sequence snippet

SNIP

McGuiness wrote:I vote to impale him on a short stake!

(Emphasis in McGuiness' post is mine...)

Ahhh, yesss. I'm reminded so much of Raghunath Rao's final solution for the Emperor's cousin Venandakatra (the Vile One) in The Tide of Victory (Available through Baen) by Eric Flint and David Drake

Randomiser wrote:Dennis, Re Rayno succeeding Clyntahn. Its hard to see a plot line that involves the Vicarate at large emerging at this stage in the story. There has just been too much hand-wavium about the Vicarate so far for them to become significant now. There are 260+ other vicars, how many of them can you name? Which of them are Clyntahn's allies and how many of them might support Rayno if he was gone? What part are they playing in the life of the church or the direction of the Jihad? That's right, we haven't a clue.

I don't see one either. I was simply pointing out that if Clyntahn dies a new Grand Inquisitor must be appointed, and who that is is a Vicarate vote. The impression we get is that a qualification is being a Vicar, which Rayno is not and won't be.

We know Clyntahn 'controls' the Vicarate, but we haven't seen anything about how he does it in detail, because it hasn't been relevant to the story. At this stage, the Vicarate at large is just stage dressing for the action we are following.

No detail is needed. Control for Clyntahn simply means "not speaking out against him so he can do whatever he likes without interference", and he got that by his brutal purge. Anyone inclined to question him will know the likely result will be a date with the Punishment in the Plaza of Martyrs. They are all living in terror and keeping their heads down and mouths shut.
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Dennis

Weird Harold wrote:

Dilandu wrote:The orbital drop of some kinetic projectile may be more accurate, but we have reasons to assume that either Temple or Rakurai array are scanning for such things, and may have their own opinion.

The Temple may well react to a super/hypersonic bomb run as quickly as an OBS strike. Maybe even faster since the rebel faction didn't have an orbital bombardment system -- "if it came from orbit it must be ours."

Possible, but what does it do if it does detect one? For that matter, what does it do if it detects what appears to be an OBS strike against Zion?

The fear among the good guys is activity that could provoke the Temple into calling down an OBS strike on them. We have no evidence the Temple has its own weaponry tucked away to defend it. The folks who built it would not see a need. The point of the OBS was in part preventing anyone from developing the ability to create stuff that could be that kind of threat.

If what the Temple can do is call down an OBS strike, it has the issue of what the threat is and where to direct the strike. An apparent strike from orbit will present it with a quandary. What does it toss rocks at?

(Minimal textev gives it a point defense capability to protect itself, and a space to surface capability against ground targets, but that's it, and tossing rocks isn't very effective against something else that has gotten to orbital height. Merlin's recon skimmer could arguably get there, but doesn't mount any weapons powerful enough to threaten the OBS from beyond point defense range.)
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Dennis

McGuiness wrote:The reason I've suggested infiltrating a team of scout snipers into Zion is that RFC has set the stage for something like it. One of the cargo lorries in Nimue's cave has been modified so it has seats to carry several people rather than cargo. Why would RFC slip in that little tidbit if he didn't plan to use it eventually?

He might. The lorry doesn't get used much because it's subsonic. Merlin prefers the skimmer because it's a lot faster and the extra speed might be handy.

But the issue with using the lorry is the location of the target. It's (relatively) slow and not really stealthed. It's useful for the limited purposes we've seen thus far, where it will operate and drop passengers far from where it might be seen by ordinary folks.

I just don't see a way it could be used close enough to Zion to infiltrate a scout sniper team, and then extract them again. Too many prying eyes that might notice it, and that's the last thing Merlin and company want.

However, if this isn't one of his false trails, one of these days that lorry is going to come in handy. It may take the Sisters of the Snow for a quick trip to Nimue's cave. It would come in handy if the agents of the Fist of God need to escape from Zion quickly. (Which may be what Aivah was hinting at when she told Merlin that she needed to travel to Zion in a single day.)

Same issue there as infiltrating scout snipers into Zion. You likely can't get the lorry close enough unobserved.
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Dennis

DMcCunney wrote:
(Minimal textev gives it a point defense capability to protect itself, and a space to surface capability against ground targets, but that's it, and tossing rocks isn't very effective against something else that has gotten to orbital height. Merlin's recon skimmer could arguably get there, but doesn't mount any weapons powerful enough to threaten the OBS from beyond point defense range.)
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Dennis

The Rakurai array clearly wasn't programmed to analyse the situation by themselves. They didn't react even when the SNARC tried to probe them with active sensors - they only destroyed the SNARC, but no additional reaction (like a call to the Temple "unauthorised SNARC flight detected/disposed, take a note") followed.

Weird Harold wrote:

Dilandu wrote:Well, the Rakurai array seems to be generally peaceful about those kind of things. Even when the array vaporised two unauthorised SNARC's there were no reaction. And one SNARC went actually active, i.e. clearly demonstrated its artifical origins.

With just passive sensors, the Temple would need line of sight at a minimum; the test of the OBS defenses with SNARCs should have been "beyond visual range" and out of line-of-sight from the temple. i.e. on the back side of the planet portion of it's orbit.

Yes, but the interesting thing is that the OBS detected and destroyed a high-tech intruder but DID NOT then go and wake up "The Thing Under the Temple". The coordination between them is not as tight as one might reasonably have feared it to be.
(Excellent point Dilandu)

Randomiser wrote:
Yes, but the interesting thing is that the OBS detected and destroyed a high-tech intruder but DID NOT then go and wake up "The Thing Under the Temple". The coordination between them is not as tight as one might have reasonably feared it to be.
(Excellent point Dilandu)

Hm. Is it possible, that Rakurai array and the Temple may be controlled by different sub-factions of Archangels, who did not trust each other very much?

Dilandu wrote:

Randomiser wrote:
Yes, but the interesting thing is that the OBS detected and destroyed a high-tech intruder but DID NOT then go and wake up "The Thing Under the Temple". The coordination between them is not as tight as one might have reasonably feared it to be.
(Excellent point Dilandu)

Hm. Is it possible, that Rakurai array and the Temple may be controlled by different sub-factions of Archangels, who did not trust each other very much?

But then you have to explain the use if the Rakurai to destroy the abbey of St. Kohdy.

fallsfromtrees wrote:But then you have to explain the use if the Rakurai to destroy the abbey of St. Kohdy.

Well, we are not sure that the Rakurai array was used this time. Those who destroyed St. Kohdy may use something less powerfull - like a munitions from the skimmer - especially because they were concered that such strike must NOT be noticed by general population. The hypervelocity projectiles, ripping through atmosphere, are pretty... visible. The plasma trails would be viewed from the hundreds of miles.

Or, both faction agreed that this time the Rakurai array should be used.

Dilandu wrote:

fallsfromtrees wrote:But then you have to explain the use if the Rakurai to destroy the abbey of St. Kohdy.

Well, we are not sure that the Rakurai array was used this time. Those who destroyed St. Kohdy may use something less powerfull - like a munitions from the skimmer - especially because they were concered that such strike must NOT be noticed by general population. The hypervelocity projectiles, ripping through atmosphere, are pretty... visible. The plasma trails would be viewed from the hundreds of miles.

Or, both faction agreed that this time the Rakurai array should be used.

Agreed, which means that the use of a 2000 lb bomb with modern explosives as a Rakurai strike on the Inquistion not unreasonable ( to drag the tread back to the original topic)