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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:24 pm

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You forget the idiots that would vote for a toad if it was a Democrat.

There are also those that would vote for a crow if it was a Republican.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:20 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:You forget the idiots that would vote for a toad if it was a Democrat.

There are also those that would vote for a crow if it was a Republican.


Or those that would vote for either instead of Hillary Clinton.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:59 am

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Well yes that is modern politics. Around 80% of the electorate will vote their party no matter what.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by dscott8   » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:42 am

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Annachie wrote:Well yes that is modern politics. Around 80% of the electorate will vote their party no matter what.

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That traditional bit of wisdom is getting a bit thin in this election. Look at the number of Republicans bailing out on Trump, or the Bernie-Or-Bust crowd. Also, fewer people are bothering to register a party affiliation -- many see no real difference between the parties. They both campaign on emotional issues to get the voters fired up, but no matter who wins, they all cut backroom deals together in favor of those who have enough money to hedge their bets by donating to both parties.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:15 am

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True ds, this US election looks to be an exception for President.

But I'm betting it will hold for further down the ballot.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by DDHv   » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:59 am

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Annachie wrote:True ds, this US election looks to be an exception for President.

But I'm betting it will hold for further down the ballot.

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Don't ever forget the effects of media bias.

From:

http://constitution.com/trump-leading-6 ... 00-voters/

The sad part is that so many people today believe everything they hear and see from the liberal mainstream media. They take the reports as gospel.

Among other things described, a group of graduate students did their own poll: 1,000 people from each state, evenly divided between R, D, & I, and got much different results than the media polls. Ouch.

Unfortunately, "May you live in interesting times." seems to be happening, and is likely to be lethal for at least some of us
:(
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:43 am

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DDHv wrote:Among other things described, a group of graduate students did their own poll: 1,000 people from each state, evenly divided between R, D, & I, and got much different results than the media polls. Ouch.

Unfortunately, "May you live in interesting times." seems to be happening, and is likely to be lethal for at least some of us
:(


And the fact that that sort of selection of candidates makes the poll invalid didn't register with you? (Also, why do you not link to that poll?)

Let me explain:

Going by your description, if they chose 1000 people from each state with a selection filter making sure that there's an even split between people who identify with Rs, Ds and Independents, you're not going to get representative results. Why? Because the US population isn't neatly divided into 33% Rs, 33%Ds, and 33% others. By applying the selection, they have changed the question they're asking: It's no longer "what does a representative sample of the US population think", it's "what do people who identify as X think".

Then we get to methodological questions, as pointed out in this essay:
We’ve reached that stage of the campaign. The back-to-school commercials are on the air, and the “unskewing” of polls has begun — the quadrennial exercise in which partisans simply adjust the polls to get results more to their liking, usually with a thin sheen of math-y words to make it all sound like rigorous analysis instead of magical thinking.

...

Now the unskewers are back, again insisting that pollsters are “using” more Democrats than they should, and that the percentage of Democrats and Republicans should be equal, or that there should be more Republicans. They point to surveys like the recent one from ABC News and The Washington Post, in which 33 percent of registered voters identified as Democrats compared to 27 percent as Republicans. That poll found Hillary Clinton ahead by 8 percentage points.

But let’s say this plainly: The polls are not “skewed.” They weren’t in 2012, and they aren’t now.

The basic premise of the unskewers is wrong.
Most pollsters don’t weight their results by party self-identification, which polls get by asking a question like “generally speaking, do you usually think of yourself as a….” Party identification is an attitude, not a demographic. There isn’t some national number from the government that tells us how many Democrats and Republicans there are in the country. Some states collect party registration data, but many states do not. Moreover, party registration is not the same thing as party identification. In a state like Kentucky, for example, there are a lot more registered Democrats than registered Republicans, but more voters identified as Republican in the 2014 election exit polls.


(highlighting by me)
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by dscott8   » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:26 pm

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DDHv wrote:Don't ever forget the effects of media bias.

From:

http://constitution.com/trump-leading-6 ... 00-voters/

The sad part is that so many people today believe everything they hear and see from the liberal mainstream media. They take the reports as gospel.

Among other things described, a group of graduate students did their own poll: 1,000 people from each state, evenly divided between R, D, & I, and got much different results than the media polls. Ouch.

Unfortunately, "May you live in interesting times." seems to be happening, and is likely to be lethal for at least some of us
:(


Media bias? That link leads to constitution.com, whose content is emphatically anti-Clinton and pro-Trump. They're even giving away a customized "Trump Truck".

One thing that irritates me about Trump is the way he turns everything into a conspiracy against himself. He calls the press biased when they report the exact words that come out of his mouth. He claims that dozens of polls conducted by reputable independent pollsters are faked. He's already whining that if he doesn't win, it's because the elections will be "rigged". He sounds like a teenager trying desperately to convince his parents that it wasn't his fault that he rolled the family car.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:19 pm

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As always when talking about governments, "Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister"

https://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:57 pm

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Annachie wrote:As always when talking about governments, "Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister"

https://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA

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Hah! I already linked that one pages ago! (somewhere)

:mrgreen:

But it IS very fitting indeed, well deserved to be brought up more than once.
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