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A waaaaay out of order snippet

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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by McGuiness   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:40 pm

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Sharp Claw wrote:Mistress Marzho is not only the head of her cell but the head of Nynians Zion organization, so she could do considerable damage if she was captured and told all she knew. Hopefully, Nynian is watching with a SNARC and can get other members of Helm Cleaver, one of owls remotes or a sejin to rescue or assassinate her before she is whisked away to the temple.
I'd guess that OWL has a SNARC on Mistress Marzho at all times, and that anything out of the ordinary is flagged for immediate attention by Nahrmahn in hyper-heuristic mode.

Unfortunately our heroine has two major problems: the nearest seijin is over 5000 miles away, while the second is probably close to 7000. The fastest Merlin has ever dared fly was Mach 5 en route to rescuing Sharley from the assassination attempt at the abbey. That's around 3500 mph, and puts him about 90 minutes away once he manages to break away from whatever he's doing when OWL sounds the alarm and he races to meet the skimmer. (Better hope it's night with a thunderstorm over Siddar City!) ;)

The other problem is that Merlin and Nimue don't dare get too close to the Temple. So if the captive is dragged off to the Citadel of Schueler, which is specifically mentioned in HFaF as being the part of the Temple complex where prisoners are held while they're tortured, and where I presume she'd be put to the Question and the Punishment, the PICAs can't rescue her.

The Temple complex is huge, but we know that Gwylym Manthyr and the thirty Charisian seamen who survived both the Question and the Punishment were able to shuffle to the posts in the Plaza of Martyrs to be burned - which is where Manthyr spit in Clyntahn's face. Of course they may have been carried there in wagons, then forced to walk the final distance.

So if the citadel is far enough away from the Temple for a PICA to dare going inside, we could see another demonstration of what a 10 gauge shotgun can do as a seijin shoots his way inside to rescue our unfortunate heroine. If stealth and skullduggery are required, Merlin could have the chance to be sneaky while leaving a trail of dead inquisitors in his wake, which is of course the best kind of inquisitor! :twisted:

Of course we have only a partial scene here and don't know the entire context. It may not occur at Mistress Marzho's Fine Milliners - it might be further away from the Temple, or the winter weather may slow the inquisitor's return trip to the Temple enough that a seijin will have time to intervene. Perhaps the best we can hope for is that Merlin gets within sniping distance... :?

I don't like the odds though. It's sad when you have to hope that the woman who's about to be brutalized and horrifically murdered is Zhorzhet Styvynsyn and not Mistress Marhzo!

Mistress Marhzo can give away quite a bit more than Zhorzhet, including that the seijins have access to at least one hikousen to fly quickly from place to place. I was absolutely shocked when Merlin let that tidbit get out to the Fist of God, since it's crucial to his ability to pose as multiple seijins, and despite OWL's remotes acting as seijins now and then, if Aivah could figure out that he was the only seijin, although with Nimue there's two of them, with enough sightings of short and tall seijins correlated with unexplained absences by Merlin or Nimue, the Inquisition could draw the obvious conclusion as well. That would be a Bad Thing! :shock:

On the other hand, the Fist of God may be lying in wait outside and Zhorzhet may be serving as bait to trap the inquisitors inside. (Wherever inside may be.) So some inquisitors may be about to die, after which OWL or Nahrmahn will inform Merlin that the only casualty of the latest plot by the Fist of God was an agent's elbow.

Whoever it is will spill her guts (literally once the torturers begin administering the Punishment!) but Zhorzhet can only give up Mistress Marhzo and the other members of her cell. If they disappear fast enough, the Inquisition will find itself with a useless list of names, since the people on the list will be long gone. :lol:

Aivah may lose the Fist of God, but not all of its fingers...

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:00 pm

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This is a perfect opportunity for Rayno to communicate with Helm Cleaver. He interrogates her alone to limit the spread of whatever it is she has to say. Perhaps only 1-2 trusted henchmen. She "dies" and her body is disposed of by said henchmen. The agent then reports to Nynian what transpired in the interrogation under Father Paityr's verifier.

Long and the short of it is Rayno wishes to coordinate with Helm Cleaver to take out Clyntahn.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by n7axw   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:45 pm

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PeterZ wrote:This is a perfect opportunity for Rayno to communicate with Helm Cleaver. He interrogates her alone to limit the spread of whatever it is she has to say. Perhaps only 1-2 trusted henchmen. She "dies" and her body is disposed of by said henchmen. The agent then reports to Nynian what transpired in the interrogation under Father Paityr's verifier.

Long and the short of it is Rayno wishes to coordinate with Helm Cleaver to take out Clyntahn.


I can see the logic here...but it looks to me like a l-o-o-o-n-g shot...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by McGuiness   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:54 pm

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PeterZ wrote:This is a perfect opportunity for Rayno to communicate with Helm Cleaver. He interrogates her alone to limit the spread of whatever it is she has to say. Perhaps only 1-2 trusted henchmen. She "dies" and her body is disposed of by said henchmen. The agent then reports to Nynian what transpired in the interrogation under Father Paityr's verifier.

Long and the short of it is Rayno wishes to coordinate with Helm Cleaver to take out Clyntahn.
I'll admit that's a twist dastardly enough for RFC, but does Rayno actually want Clyntahn's job?

He's already about as powerful as he'd like to be, plus he doesn't have to take the blame from everyone else for the overall failings of the Jihad. Yeah, he's the target of many a Clyntahn tirade, but if he really wanted to kill Clyntahn off, wouldn't he just bring him more bad news than he does and let the Grand Fornicator's blood pressure take care of the rest? ;)

Actually, I want to see Clyntahn spitted on a stake as bad as anyone, so if RFC decides that a stab in the back is the way to go, I'm good with it. As long as he dies slooooowly... :twisted:

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by runsforcelery   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:20 pm

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Oh, I'm much more imaginative than that . . . . :twisted:

Although there is a little backstabbing in the current book, now that I think about it.


McGuiness wrote:
PeterZ wrote:This is a perfect opportunity for Rayno to communicate with Helm Cleaver. He interrogates her alone to limit the spread of whatever it is she has to say. Perhaps only 1-2 trusted henchmen. She "dies" and her body is disposed of by said henchmen. The agent then reports to Nynian what transpired in the interrogation under Father Paityr's verifier.

Long and the short of it is Rayno wishes to coordinate with Helm Cleaver to take out Clyntahn.
I'll admit that's a twist dastardly enough for RFC, but does Rayno actually want Clyntahn's job?

He's already about as powerful as he'd like to be, plus he doesn't have to take the blame from everyone else for the overall failings of the Jihad. Yeah, he's the target of many a Clyntahn tirade, but if he really wanted to kill Clyntahn off, wouldn't he just bring him more bad news than he does and let the Grand Fornicator's blood pressure take care of the rest? ;)

Actually, I want to see Clyntahn spitted on a stake as bad as anyone, so if RFC decides that a stab in the back is the way to go, I'm good with it. As long as he dies slooooowly... :twisted:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by 6L6   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:49 pm

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You had to destroy my high.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:56 pm

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I was hoping I was being too direct. I figured my guess was akin to sinking the last solid ball in the corner and calling a bank shot off of two rails to kiss the Eight Ball in the side pocket.

Glad to hear RFC is imaginative enough to come up with a less direct shot to off that SOB Clyntahn.
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:26 pm

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Rayno does not want reform. That's why he fixed the election to ensure Clyntahn's victory. Now we see Clyntahn forcing through changes and using meathods that will bring equally large changes to the Inquisition than reform would have brought. If he doesn't stop Clyntahn soon, either Charis will impose massive changes following their victory or the entire Vicarate will back cleaning house within the Inquisition.

Rayno's only hope of salvaging the Inquisition is to kill Clyntahn before Charis achieves complete victory. If he works with Duchairn, he can avoid becomming the Grand Inquisitor. Perhaps guiding the new Grand Inquisitor like....Maik to salvaging as much of the authority of the Office of the Inquisition as he can. I suspect Rayno will do anything to maintain the Inquisition's power to defend Safehold from heresy. I see his taking what he can get now and rebuild the Office down the road.

McGuiness wrote:
PeterZ wrote:This is a perfect opportunity for Rayno to communicate with Helm Cleaver. He interrogates her alone to limit the spread of whatever it is she has to say. Perhaps only 1-2 trusted henchmen. She "dies" and her body is disposed of by said henchmen. The agent then reports to Nynian what transpired in the interrogation under Father Paityr's verifier.

Long and the short of it is Rayno wishes to coordinate with Helm Cleaver to take out Clyntahn.
I'll admit that's a twist dastardly enough for RFC, but does Rayno actually want Clyntahn's job?

He's already about as powerful as he'd like to be, plus he doesn't have to take the blame from everyone else for the overall failings of the Jihad. Yeah, he's the target of many a Clyntahn tirade, but if he really wanted to kill Clyntahn off, wouldn't he just bring him more bad news than he does and let the Grand Fornicator's blood pressure take care of the rest? ;)

Actually, I want to see Clyntahn spitted on a stake as bad as anyone, so if RFC decides that a stab in the back is the way to go, I'm good with it. As long as he dies slooooowly... :twisted:
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by jchilds   » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:35 am

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runsforcelery wrote:Oh, I'm much more imaginative than that . . . . :twisted:

Although there is a little backstabbing in the current book, now that I think about it.



Good. That makes it highly unlikely opposition to Clyntahn will coalesce around a new character by the name of Sahndyrs and/or Trymf... :roll:
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Re: A waaaaay out of order snippet
Post by evilauthor   » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:43 am

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McGuiness wrote:I'd guess that OWL has a SNARC on Mistress Marzho at all times, and that anything out of the ordinary is flagged for immediate attention by Nahrmahn in hyper-heuristic mode.



Problem with that. It WON'T get "immediate attention" because SNARCs operating in Zion are operating under radio silence in order to avoid detection by Temple sensors. They are thus not in real time contact with OWL, but instead use a dead drop system to get information out and instructions in. Which takes alot of TIME.

IOW, by the time OWL and Nahrman get word, it'll be faaar too late for the Seijins to do anything.
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