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What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?

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What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by 19chickens   » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:01 pm

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So new book soon! :D

Firstly, what's happening with the Alignment's plans? At the end of SoF they'd executed Houdini, evacuating everyone important in the Alignment to Darius (I think). So:

What is the general astrography associated with the Alignment? As in, the Torch wormhole goes to [long alphanumeric string], but how does that connect to the other systems?

What is the endgame of the Mesan Alignment's plan? I know it's the Renaissance Factor seceding from the Solarian League, but what after that? Conquer the Solly remnants and impose their genetic uplift on everyone?
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by JohnRoth   » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:25 pm

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19chickens wrote:So new book soon! :D

Firstly, what's happening with the Alignment's plans? At the end of SoF they'd executed Houdini, evacuating everyone important in the Alignment to Darius (I think). So:

What is the general astrography associated with the Alignment? As in, the Torch wormhole goes to [long alphanumeric string], but how does that connect to the other systems?


This is laid out in Chapter 50 of Torch of Freedom. There is a 4-terminus junction in Felix, which is 10 ly from Mannerheim. One terminus goes to The Twins (SGC whatever), and then to Torch. Another goes to Darius. The other two go somewhere unknown and apparently unimportant.

We don't know where Felix, Mannerheim, The Twins or Darius are.

19chickens wrote:What is the endgame of the Mesan Alignment's plan? I know it's the Renaissance Factor seceding from the Solarian League, but what after that? Conquer the Solly remnants and impose their genetic uplift on everyone?


Not quite. The Solarian League is to break up into small, chaotic chunks. The RF will reluctantly form to provide a safe haven among the chaos. Then they'll very gradually get people to impose the genetic uplift program on themselves.
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by cthia   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:47 pm

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The MA's plan is chauvinistically intuitive in a truly male dominated society, "Galactic Domination."

As opposed to what the overarching theme would be, if behind every MAlign male there stands an intelligent female MAlign beauty Queen giving her speech of "Galactic Peace."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by Henry Brown   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:59 pm

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19chickens wrote:So new book soon! :D

Firstly, what's happening with the Alignment's plans? At the end of SoF they'd executed Houdini, evacuating everyone important in the Alignment to Darius (I think). So:

What is the general astrography associated with the Alignment? As in, the Torch wormhole goes to [long alphanumeric string], but how does that connect to the other systems?

What is the endgame of the Mesan Alignment's plan? I know it's the Renaissance Factor seceding from the Solarian League, but what after that? Conquer the Solly remnants and impose their genetic uplift on everyone?


Yes, the plan was to conquer the SL remnants and impose the idea of genetic uplift on everyone. But it seems to me that plan has already run aground. As I understand it, they were envisioning a complete collapse of the SL *AND*
an absence of powerful outside star nations to fill the void. This would result in chaos which would lead to other worlds voluntarily aligning themselves with the Renaissance Factor. Because they would be the only powerful, multi-system entity left. They would represent security in a universe gone mad. They were planning on many of the former SL worlds voluntarily joining them. Which is why they have gone to such pains to keep the Manticore-Haven war going in previous books. They wanted Manticore and Haven to either wipe each other or for the survivor of the war to be seriously weakened.

Obviously, this did not happen. Now the SEM and the RH are ALLIED. This creates an immensely powerful block of power which should work as counter balance to the Renaissance Factor. Even worse, Beowulf has joined to form the Grand Alliance. In military terms, Beowulf probably does not add much to what SEM and RH have. But they do add immense prestige. Beowulf is one of the oldest, best known, most highly respected worlds in the SL. I think the presence of Beowulf in the Grand Alliance is going to be extremely significant in diplomacy once the SL starts to break up. Systems might dismiss Manticore or Haven as neo-barbs. But they will respect Beowulf.

There is also a second, independent powerblock forming in the Maya sector. As we all know, Governor Barregos and Admiral Rozsak are conspiring to break the entire Maya Sector away from the SL. And they have Erewhon building them a fleet of fairly good ships (not cutting edge by Manticore standards, but way better than anything the SL has) plus an alliance with Torch. I guarantee the MAlign did not anticipate this. I'd bet that once the SL starts breaking up, nearby systems might start signing on with Maya and they might grow.

Anyhow, my main point is that the MAlign planned for the RF to be the only game in town once the SL broke up. And I think the breakup of the SL is now inevitable. Even if they stopped trying to subvert it, things are too far gone. But instead of being the only strong, organized rallying point after the breakup of the SL, now the RF is going to be 1 of 3. And that is not counting how the GA is going to react once they figure out the RF is associated with the MAlign. So it seems to me that their initial political strategy is FUBAR'd.
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by Theemile   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:01 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
19chickens wrote:So new book soon! :D

Firstly, what's happening with the Alignment's plans? At the end of SoF they'd executed Houdini, evacuating everyone important in the Alignment to Darius (I think). So:

What is the general astrography associated with the Alignment? As in, the Torch wormhole goes to [long alphanumeric string], but how does that connect to the other systems?


This is laid out in Chapter 50 of Torch of Freedom. There is a 4-terminus junction in Felix, which is 10 ly from Mannerheim. One terminus goes to The Twins (SGC whatever), and then to Torch. Another goes to Darius. The other two go somewhere unknown and apparently unimportant.

We don't know where Felix, Mannerheim, The Twins or Darius are.

19chickens wrote:What is the endgame of the Mesan Alignment's plan? I know it's the Renaissance Factor seceding from the Solarian League, but what after that? Conquer the Solly remnants and impose their genetic uplift on everyone?


Not quite. The Solarian League is to break up into small, chaotic chunks. The RF will reluctantly form to provide a safe haven among the chaos. Then they'll very gradually get people to impose the genetic uplift program on themselves.


Another interesting point is the RF controls at least 2 known wormholes in the SL and 1 unknown one. This will help provide income and allow for quick movement through the former SL space, in addition for allowing for dispersed lobes of the RF to be closer together. If I were them, I would attempt to cultivate relations with other wormhole owners, and be in a position to control as many of the wormholes as possible after the dust settles, and the RMN leaves them.

Actually this gives another question - We know Visigoth's wormhole is connected to Mesa. Will Visigoth "volunteer" it's SDF to assist in policing Mesa? When the RF does officially form after the SL collapse, it would give the ability to continue to control Mesa and keep it in the RF in possession of the planet. it would be difficult for Manticore or Torch to control longterm, due to distance and politics, why not accept assistance from a "friend" like Visigoth?
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:47 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:There is also a second, independent powerblock forming in the Maya sector. As we all know, Governor Barregos and Admiral Rozsak are conspiring to break the entire Maya Sector away from the SL.


Actually, Maya would be the Third power block, after The GA and Anderman Empire. There is also the group of multi-system nations that joined the SL as multi-system blocks, and other multi-system nations in the verge -- like the newly restored and expanded Kingdom of Meyers or the long established Phoenix Cluster.

The MAlign's plans for the Renaissance Factor face many more obstacles than planned, but the initial stages of peaceful agglomeration and voluntary expansion will be less successful; at least not as quickly as planned. But in the long-term, the RF would have needed to turn Conquistador and round up the hardcore independents by force; they can delay that until they have military parity. They probably will feel that completing the Lenny Dets will give them that parity and will feel a lot of pressure to use their secret weapons as soon as possible; They're going to turn belligerent before they really should.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by Henry Brown   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:03 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:Actually, Maya would be the Third power block, after The GA and Anderman Empire. There is also the group of multi-system nations that joined the SL as multi-system blocks, and other multi-system nations in the verge -- like the newly restored and expanded Kingdom of Meyers or the long established Phoenix Cluster.
****SNIP****


I actually thought about the Andermani Empire when I was writing my post, but decided not to include them. As I understand interstellar geography in the Honorverse, the AE is much further away from the SL than either the GA or the Maya sector is. Because of this distance, I didn't think they'd be a viable option for newly independent star systems looking to sign on with a strong partner.
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:29 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:I actually thought about the Andermani Empire when I was writing my post, but decided not to include them. As I understand interstellar geography in the Honorverse, the AE is much further away from the SL than either the GA or the Maya sector is. Because of this distance, I didn't think they'd be a viable option for newly independent star systems looking to sign on with a strong partner.


The Anderman Empire is not a great deal further from the edges of the League (Verge) than Manticore or Erewhon, and has a wormhole connection via Asgerd (which is even closer.)

If nothing else, the AE is well placed to be an arms merchant supplying Haven Sector Tech to SDFs on that arc of the League's borders.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: What are the Mesan Alignment's plans?
Post by Vince   » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:37 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Henry Brown wrote:I actually thought about the Andermani Empire when I was writing my post, but decided not to include them. As I understand interstellar geography in the Honorverse, the AE is much further away from the SL than either the GA or the Maya sector is. Because of this distance, I didn't think they'd be a viable option for newly independent star systems looking to sign on with a strong partner.


The Anderman Empire is not a great deal further from the edges of the League (Verge) than Manticore or Erewhon, and has a wormhole connection via Asgerd (which is even closer.)

If nothing else, the AE is well placed to be an arms merchant supplying Haven Sector Tech to SDFs on that arc of the League's borders.

As well as the direct connection from Gregor A to the Manticore Wormhole Junction. The Anderman Empire acquired Gregor B forty years prior to the events in Honor Among Enemies. (It is not outright stated, but heavily implied that the Gregor system, like the Manticore system, is a binary star system.)
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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