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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:48 pm

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You made changes to a quote you attributed to me. I did not write what you say I write. I did that dishonest and rude. If what I writes is subject to revision, then I don't wish to converse.

Bad enough we are discussing two liars. We don't need to add to it by altering what posters writes and citing that inaccurate reference. If my posts are treated with such disregard, then I don't need to participate in conversation.

Toodles.

dscott8 wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Read the post above yours that I copied. Was the portion you cited as having been written by me exactly as I wrote it? No it is not. You changed some of the words I wrote. That means you are willing to change my posts to suit your prejudice. To what degree you are willing to make such alternations is still open to discussion. That you will is not.

If you are willing to misinform on small things, it is reasonable you are willing to go further.


I have your original post at 12:49 PM open in two windows side by side with your copy above. Everything (with one exception addressed below) is identical with the original post (which I do not have access to edit), down to the mistake of "he has shown a lack off" instead of "he has shown a lack of".

If you object to my having John Oliver's Chrome plug-in that changes "Trump" to "Drumpf" (his original family name), if that's your entire complaint, then you are far too easily offended, especially for someone defending a candidate who makes a habit of giving his competitors derogatory nicknames like a schoolyard bully. If that's all the defense you have, then it looks like you just needed an excuse to walk away from the conversation.

#MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by dscott8   » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:52 pm

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PeterZ wrote:You made changes to a quote you attributed to me. I did not write what you say I write. I did that dishonest and rude. If what I writes is subject to revision, then I don't wish to converse.

Bad enough we are discussing two liars. We don't need to add to it by altering what posters writes and citing that inaccurate reference. If my posts are treated with such disregard, then I don't need to participate in conversation.

Toodles.


OK, go lie down and recover your grammar skills. The stress is showing.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:35 pm

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dscott8 wrote:If you object to my having John Oliver's Chrome plug-in that changes "Trump" to "Drumpf" (his original family name), if that's your entire complaint, then you are far too easily offended, especially for someone defending a candidate who makes a habit of giving his competitors derogatory nicknames like a schoolyard bully. If that's all the defense you have, then it looks like you just needed an excuse to walk away from the conversation.

So, changing a word in a quote to satisfy a need for personal satisfaction is okay?
Well, in that case, it must be fine to do quote snipping as well, right?
Well, let's do just that. I'll even show the steps (look for the bolded letters)
dscott8 wrote:If you object to my having John Oliver's Chrome plug-in that changes "Trump" to "Drumpf" (his original family name), if that's your entire complaint, then you are far too easily offended, especially for someone defending a candidate who makes a habit of giving his competitors derogatory nicknames like a schoolyard bully. If that's all the defense you have, then it looks like you just needed an excuse to walk away from the conversation.

dscott8 wrote:I met hitler

Exactly what you did, but a couple of steps further.
Changing quotes for whatever reason is the start of a very slippery slope. If you do change a quote, put in a note about what you have changed and why.
To many non-americans like myself, we don't see why it matters that Trump is descended from a Drumpf. Did he use to be one and legally change his name? Most of us don't really care. We know who he is now, so why make a big fuss about it? Did he break any laws having his name changed? How many others have changed their names? How many Hollywood stars were born with different names? Seriously, so long as it wasn't done in an attempt to hide a criminal past, IT DOES NOT MATTER.

:twisted: After all, focusing on the trivialities is proof that there is nothing of substance to moan about...
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by dscott8   » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:52 pm

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Michael Everett wrote:Exactly what you did, but a couple of steps further.
Changing quotes for whatever reason is the start of a very slippery slope. If you do change a quote, put in a note about what you have changed and why.
To many non-americans like myself, we don't see why it matters that Trump is descended from a Drumpf. Did he use to be one and legally change his name? Most of us don't really care. We know who he is now, so why make a big fuss about it? Did he break any laws having his name changed? How many others have changed their names? How many Hollywood stars were born with different names? Seriously, so long as it wasn't done in an attempt to hide a criminal past, IT DOES NOT MATTER.

:twisted: After all, focusing on the trivialities is proof that there is nothing of substance to moan about...


The reason it matters is that Trump criticized Jon Stewart (born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz) for using a stage name, suggesting that Jon was ashamed of his Jewish heritage. John Oliver pointed out that Trump's grandpa had changed the family name from Drumpf to Trump, maybe because of anti-German attitudes during the world wars.

Yeah, I didn't think about having the joke "Drumpf" plug-in affecting the quotes. I think it's a minor thing, and I've turned the plug-in off. If PeterZ wants to get all wound up about it, he's welcome to it.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:46 am

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PeterZ wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3732239/Did-murdered-DNC-staffer-leak-20-000-party-emails-Conspiracy-theories-abound-Wikileaks-steps-forward-offer-20k-mystery-death-27-year-old.html

Is this interesting to anyone? Seth Rich, the reported leaker of the DNC emails was shot dead. One more in a long list of bodies that appear to coincidentally follow our Democrat presidential candidate. Did she order it? Not likely, but dead bodies do follow her.


Of course it's interesting to someone. The same usual someones who believe that the Clintons have a history of having people around them killed, despite there being exactly zero evidence of this in the real world.

(It's also one more nail in the coffin of wikileaks as a credible source for anything)

Oh, and here's an interesting article on the reasons why Trump acts the way he does while on a stage: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do ... incite-him
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Daryl   » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:28 am

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The whole conspiracy theory approach in general, and the supposed Clinton criminal gang in particular is simply not feasible.
As the saying goes one person can keep a secret but not two. There is no way that large numbers of people could all keep a secret, particularly when organisations like the Republicans would pay millions and provide protection to whistleblowers.
Currently here the conspiracy theorists are on about our first on line census, and how the big bad government is collating all this information in order to control its citizens. After years working at highish levels of government, I could have told them that the government can't even get its overt agenda under control, let again run some enormous covert operation. Then as expected it all went wrong as they had cut the funding for our census people who installed cheap computer systems that died on the night.
I've got news for you folks, the good news is that big brother is toothless and useless, the bad news is that there really is no one steering the ship of state.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:52 am

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Nothing new here, good buddy. Don't need to persuade me he has issues.

Newly released emails associated with Hillary's staff continue to burry her in evidence that she used her Foundation and Bill's speaking tours to accept money for services and influence to donors both foreign and domestic.

So I still stand looking at a corrupt politician with decades of experience in using machine politics and a private citizen with impulse control issues who spent decades navigating corrupt waters. Both are comfortable dealing with corruption, but only Hillary has demonstrated skill and experiencing at creating a sustainable ecosystem for systemic corruption.

The recent news just piles the evidence higher and deeper. That the evidence continues to have no impact on her beyond possibly on polls further supports the entire premise.

The E wrote:
PeterZ wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3732239/Did-murdered-DNC-staffer-leak-20-000-party-emails-Conspiracy-theories-abound-Wikileaks-steps-forward-offer-20k-mystery-death-27-year-old.html

Is this interesting to anyone? Seth Rich, the reported leaker of the DNC emails was shot dead. One more in a long list of bodies that appear to coincidentally follow our Democrat presidential candidate. Did she order it? Not likely, but dead bodies do follow her.


Of course it's interesting to someone. The same usual someones who believe that the Clintons have a history of having people around them killed, despite there being exactly zero evidence of this in the real world.

(It's also one more nail in the coffin of wikileaks as a credible source for anything)

Oh, and here's an interesting article on the reasons why Trump acts the way he does while on a stage: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do ... incite-him
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:36 am

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PeterZ wrote:So I still stand looking at a corrupt politician with decades of experience in using machine politics and a private citizen with impulse control issues who spent decades navigating corrupt waters. Both are comfortable dealing with corruption, but only Hillary has demonstrated skill and experiencing at creating a sustainable ecosystem for systemic corruption.

The recent news just piles the evidence higher and deeper. That the evidence continues to have no impact on her beyond possibly on polls further supports the entire premise.


I think you're too taken in by Trump's marketing. We're talking about someone who is not only a habitual (maybe even compulsive) liar, but who seems to be unclear on the distinction between his personal, political and business affairs. As this article points out, it is impossible for him to separate his business from himself; the entire Trump empire is based around him having direct and personal ownership of most of it. Assuming he is elected, the conflict of interest between his charge to act as a representative of the will of the people and his business interests will be unavoidable.

Ultimately though, it comes down to this for me: Hillary Clinton may not be squeaky clean, but decades of investigation of her activities by her political adversaries has never amounted to anything substantial. No indictments, no convictions, nothing except for a growing mountain of paper printed with angry words written by angry people about how they know they're right and how the fact that they can't be proven right is definitely a sign of widespread corruption and conspiracy.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, is a living caricature. He's the Bad Boss, the corrupt real estate guy, the idiot american who is ignorant about everything and everyone and proud of it. He's a demagogue, high on the adoration of the crowd and willing to do everything to get his next fix, regardless of what direction he has to go to get it. He's the avatar of everything going wrong with the way society evolves in the age of the interne, unable or unwilling to recognize that he is living in a bubble of his own making. He is adrift on a sea of memes that he has no defence against (much like our Pokermind or DDHv have no defence against such things). Trump has taken to heart Karl Rove's words about creating his own reality. His is a world in which facts do not exist, where truth has been replaced by truthiness. Unfortunately for the rest of us, he has convinced people to join him in this world of his. It's one thing to make fun of countries like the old Soviet Union or North Korea and their continual revision of what reality is to suit the needs of their leaders, but to see the same sort of thing happening in real time, in a country as powerful as yours, is more than a bit frightening.

Given a choice between the two, Hillary, despite your attempts to paint her as the worst thing to happen in american politics since Boss Tweed, is far too invested in the american political machine to stray far from the dictates of realpolitik. She is, above all, consistent, in any given situation, we can be reasonably certain what her reactions and policies will be. Trump on the other hand allows no such predictions. Your insistence that he would be reigned in by the political machine once in office rings hollow when the fact that he's not part of said machine is the reason you're considering to vote for him. It's like handing a gun to an angry drunk guy in the hope that he'll calm down a bit. I hope I'm wrong about that, should TRump actually get to office, but I deeply fear I'm not.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:52 am

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I don't think that Trump will be reigned in by the political machine. I think he will be reigned in my the press and the other members of government. They hate him too much.

Again, you prefer to consistency of Hillary. I don't fault you that preference. You won't have to live with the results of entrenched one party rule if she does win. I doubt you really have considered it very much. I have lived in a one party system both here in the US and abroad, it sucks.

I do not want it being entrenched throughout the entire US. Trump will do plenty of bad things from my perspective including being far more liberal in his appointments to the SCOTUS. Just look at his sister Am I certain he will be? No, but I am prepared for such a turn of events. Do I think that his preference for military restraint is a good thing? It may not be. We may be allowing problems to get far bigger than they need to be. Again, I can live with that. I can also live with having a President who is the laughing stock of the world.

I am not prepared to live with one party rule like Chicago or Oklahoma. That sort of corruption is the quickest way to finding the US citizen completely disenfranchised. Too many people ignore or excuse Hillary's consistent success at finding ways to extract money in ever more obvious ways from the positions she and her husband hold.

If Trump truly screws the pooch after he is elected, we may actually have third parties being meaningful for once. That would be a far better result for the next 4 years than anything Hillary will leave us with.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Imaginos1892   » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:46 pm

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Queen Hillary is constantly promising 'free' everything. 'Free' college. 'Free' health care. 'Free' child care.

I would like to see, just once, somebody stand up from that herd of bootlickers and ask:
Are you lying, or are you actually stupid enough to believe that those things are free?

Anything that requires materials, energy and/or labor can never be free. Somebody has to pay for it. The leftists constantly try to hide from us the fact that they have to rob somebody to pay for all their 'free' stuff.

I saw John Stossel run down two Democrat politicians and try to make them admit that we are forced to pay taxes. That in the end, if you are sufficiently persistent in refusing to pay, the government will confiscate your money and property, and send men with guns to throw you in jail. Neither of them would admit to anything. They practically ran away from the camera.
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Why do politicians insist on calling their runaway government spending 'investment'? Because 'flushing your tax money down a rat-hole' just wouldn't play well?
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