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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Nico   » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:21 pm

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She probably meant 'democratic system of government'. And I disagree with Annachie, for a whole range of reasons, but mosty because of the Bill of Rights and the way the Constitution slows down major policy developments.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by pokermind   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:27 am

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I'm voting for Trump, but saw this funny anti Trump song and I couldn't help but laugh, my friends on the other side will love it, and those with any sense of humor on the conservative side will enjoy it too. "King Trump" a parody of Steve Martin's "King Tut:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQfCBdWOh4

Enjoy, Poker
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:47 am

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PeterZ wrote:There is still time for Trump and the Empress to destroy each other. Until they do Johnson is an intriguing footnote.


And that right there is why US voters will forever be stuck with two crap parties ruling the nation.

(Or, you know, one crap party and one party that has apparently gone batshit insane)
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:13 pm

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Did I say I would not vote for Johnson? I said there is yet time for me to decide. I am positive I will not vote for the Empress of Corruption. I prefer Johnson over the others. That preference does not absolve me of the responsibility of making this country better for my kids. Voting my conscience but condemning them to an institutional corruption Chicago style is pure selfishness.

I will vote for Johnson if others show similar wisdom. My gut tells me this won't happen until Trump and Her Imperial Corrupt Majesty thoroughly eviscerate each other. We have time.

If I was willing to vote for Bernie because I believed he was honest, I surely will vote for Johnson. I just won't facilitate the unprincipled Empress of Corruption winning.

gcomeau wrote:
PeterZ wrote:There is still time for Trump and the Empress to destroy each other. Until they do Johnson is an intriguing footnote.


And that right there is why US voters will forever be stuck with two crap parties ruling the nation.

(Or, you know, one crap party and one party that has apparently gone batshit insane)
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:19 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Did I say I would not vote for Johnson? I said there is yet time for me to decide. I am positive I will not vote for the Empress of Corruption. I prefer Johnson over the others. That preference does not absolve me of the responsibility of making this country better for my kids. Voting my conscience but condemning them to an institutional corruption Chicago style is pure selfishness.

I will vote for Johnson if others show similar wisdom.


And I repeat, this is why US voters are forever stuck in the 2 party stranglehold.

Everyone is standing on the sidelines waiting for everyone else to "go first" when it comes to third parties. But nobody wants to go first if they don't see everyone else going too.

Perpetual paralysis, while the two ruling parties do everything in their power to maintain it. Rigging election laws to make it damn near impossible for third parties to gain serious traction is one of the few things they can actually both agree on.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:48 pm

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You miss the leap we have taken this cycle, good debate buddy. Both parties have significant numbers of constituents who asserted anyone is better than the party establishment. Republicans are slightly ahead of the game by nominating the non-establishment. Democrats are still subject to their establishment elites.

If the two main parties spend the remainder of this cycle destroying each other, an alternative candidate might just win. If that happens, alternative parties will have been given credibility. Greens don't have to sucked up to Democrats anymore. Libertarians don't have run as Republicans. Yet to do that whoever wins this election has to win despite the press being against them.

Until the electorate can give the finger to the mainstream press by voting against the press' handpicked and protected candidate, third parties are truly footnotes. We need to actually elect an non-establishment candidate the press hates. Until we do, the praetorian press will know the presidency is theirs to hand out.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:58 pm

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PeterZ wrote:You miss the leap we have taken this cycle, good debate buddy. Both parties have significant numbers of constituents who asserted anyone is better than the party establishment.


And yet the GOP nominates an incompetent circus clown who breezily advocates war crimes and the trashing of half the Constitution and people line up to vote for him because "can't throw away our vote and let that demon woman win."

And the Dems nominate an establishment candidate that is despised as corrupt and everyone lines up to vote for her because "can't let that loudmouthed ignoramus lunatic win".

And so it shall ever be as long as the "third party is throwing your vote away" mentality continues to hold among the vast majority of voters.

If the two main parties spend the remainder of this cycle destroying each other...


...everyone will still vote for one of the two anyway rather than "throw their vote away" on a third party. At least as much of "everyone" as does every election. Maybe slightly less but not enough to matter.


Bet anything you like on it. Safest bet you'll ever make.


an alternative candidate might just win. If that happens, alternative parties will have been given credibility.


Indeed.

But that will only happen when people abandon this "I'm not doing it unless I see everyone else doing it first" mindset that holds the US electorate hostage to the two party dynamic. And they generally don't appear to be willing to do that... or even willing to consider that they should.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:02 pm

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We won't approach this from the same perspective. I don't like Trump but agree with him more than I agree with Hillary. I disagree with Johnson in significant areas. Your balance of views are different.

Where we agree is that the establishment is too corrupt to support. We both have slightly different priorities in our personal wars against the establishment. We help each other where we may and conflict where we must. Regardless of how things work out, I recognize that you approach this election with honest integrity. Many conservatives would agree with me and that is more than can be said since before Nixon.

I believe Hillary as the handmaiden of the establishment will make many people realize that their disdain of her will bridge many other more minor differences. I pray that is enough to pull us away from the systemic corruption she will foster.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:02 am

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Ironically, one of the US third parties is doing well. Because they took over the GOP.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:38 am

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Not ironic at all. Since Reagan the GOP has been either the Dem lite party or anti-Democrats. Republican leadership have defined themselves by what Democrats believe. They share the same donors by now. Witness the Koch brothers supporting Hillary over Trump.

Given the potential for corruption the Dems embrace in Hillary, the anti-Democrat party nominated the candidate the shared elites of both party hate most. Nothing ironic about it.

Annachie wrote:Ironically, one of the US third parties is doing well. Because they took over the GOP.

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