Merlin's Upcoming Conversation with Thirsk

plus if you put the young liutenent who came up with the screw galleys with Baron Seamount, talk about benefits.

that will be almost as an epic collab as Shanan Foraker and Sonja Hemphill will be in the honorverse.

lyonheart wrote:Hi PalmerSperry,

Kudos for such a clever idea!

But such a letter is quite suspicious to anyone reading it, since Thirsk saw them off personally; so it doesn't make sense unless it was picked up at sea by the searchers, which of course it wasn't.

Thus for the inquisition the obvious question is where did it come from?

OTOH, seeing his daughters and grandchildren in real time holograms talking and moving etc would be far effective, even if he has to wait for Merlin to return [which he most assuredly will] to see them again.

Since the whole purpose of the exercise is to keep Thirsk alive and still in control of the navy, NTM a power within Dohlar, avoiding anything smacking of collusion or cabals is the first order of business.

Once the inquisition has calmed down or been diverted elsewhere, Thirsk might reach out to fellow minded sympathizers, as vetted by Nynian and Nahrmahn, where and when they provide the security with OWL's remotes.

Taking Dohlar off the Go4's team would go a long way to removing the whole of Howard from the Go4's resources as well, which is more than the sheer population, Desnair's gold, and South Harchong's burgeoning industry; making it worth the allocation of these resources.

L

A letter from Thirsk's daughters or grandchildren could be crafted in such a way that no one but Thirsk would know that they are fresh sinse the family left Gorath so that anyone else who happened to find them would think that they are keepsakes of when the family was home. Just a matter of managing context...

The main point of a letter would be to provide reassurance rather than detail Merlin would provide verbally.

Don

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Every time I think about Thirsk and his agony over not knowing about his family, I am reminded of a discussion between two of the characters in "The Tide of Victory" (Eric Flint and David Drake, available through Baen):

"Undoubtedly, he failed to notice its absence." Narses' words were not so much husked, as croaked. "Undoubtedly." As a frog might pray for deliverance.
"Undoubtedly," said Sanga firmly. "Nor did I see any reason to raise the matter with him, of course. What would such a great spymaster and dynast as Nanda Lal know about onions, and the knives used to cut them?"
"Nothing," croaked Narses.
"Indeed." And now, for the first time, the severe control left Rana Sanga's face. His eyes, staring at Narses, were like dark pools of sheer agony, begging for relief.
Narses rubbed his face with a hand. "I am sworn to tell nothing but the truth, king of Rajputana. Even to such as Great Lady Sati. As you know."
Sanga nodded deeply. The gesture reminded Narses of a man placing his neck on a headsman's block. "Give me illusion, then," he whispered, "if you cannot give me the truth."
Abruptly, Narses rose. "I can do neither, Rana Sanga. I know nothing of philosophy. Nothing of onions or the knives needed to cut them. Send for your servant, please, to show me the way out of these chambers."
Sanga's head was still bent. "Please," he whispered. "I feel as if I am dying."
"Nothing," insisted Narses. "Nothing which cannot bear the scrutiny of the world's greatest ferret for the truth. Great Lady Sati, Rana Sanga."
"Please." The whisper could barely be heard.

I've always suspected that Thirsk and his aide Khaphar were working together to try to get Thirsk's family to safety. In fact, I recall reading several comments about the subject here, and recall a lot of related speculation.

So I'm doing the "great re-read" and am part way through LAMA, and what do I find...

Thirsk thinking to himself:

It would help if I could tell the girls what Ahlvyn’s up to, but I can’t do that either. I don’t think any of them would balk if I could find a way to get them out of the Inquisition’s “protective custody,” but I can’t be certain of that. And then there are their husbands. And the minor fact that if I breathed a hint of any such thought to anyone and it got back to Kharmych or the Inquisition, we’d all be dead.

I guess that settles it, at least in my mind.

Re-reading this, and thinking about Narses' conversation with Rana Sanga from The Tide of Victory, I am more convinced than ever that Merlin will tell Thirsk exactly where his family is.

WeberFan wrote:Every time I think about Thirsk and his agony over not knowing about his family, I am reminded of a discussion between two of the characters in "The Tide of Victory" (Eric Flint and David Drake, available through Baen):

"Undoubtedly, he failed to notice its absence." Narses' words were not so much husked, as croaked. "Undoubtedly." As a frog might pray for deliverance.
"Undoubtedly," said Sanga firmly. "Nor did I see any reason to raise the matter with him, of course. What would such a great spymaster and dynast as Nanda Lal know about onions, and the knives used to cut them?"
"Nothing," croaked Narses.
"Indeed." And now, for the first time, the severe control left Rana Sanga's face. His eyes, staring at Narses, were like dark pools of sheer agony, begging for relief.
Narses rubbed his face with a hand. "I am sworn to tell nothing but the truth, king of Rajputana. Even to such as Great Lady Sati. As you know."
Sanga nodded deeply. The gesture reminded Narses of a man placing his neck on a headsman's block. "Give me illusion, then," he whispered, "if you cannot give me the truth."
Abruptly, Narses rose. "I can do neither, Rana Sanga. I know nothing of philosophy. Nothing of onions or the knives needed to cut them. Send for your servant, please, to show me the way out of these chambers."
Sanga's head was still bent. "Please," he whispered. "I feel as if I am dying."
"Nothing," insisted Narses. "Nothing which cannot bear the scrutiny of the world's greatest ferret for the truth. Great Lady Sati, Rana Sanga."
"Please." The whisper could barely be heard.

I've always suspected that Thirsk and his aide Khaphar were working together to try to get Thirsk's family to safety. In fact, I recall reading several comments about the subject here, and recall a lot of related speculation.

So I'm doing the "great re-read" and am part way through LAMA, and what do I find...

Thirsk thinking to himself:

It would help if I could tell the girls what Ahlvyn’s up to, but I can’t do that either. I don’t think any of them would balk if I could find a way to get them out of the Inquisition’s “protective custody,” but I can’t be certain of that. And then there are their husbands. And the minor fact that if I breathed a hint of any such thought to anyone and it got back to Kharmych or the Inquisition, we’d all be dead.

I guess that settles it, at least in my mind.

Re-reading this, and thinking about Narses' conversation with Rana Sanga from The Tide of Victory, I am more convinced than ever that Merlin will tell Thirsk exactly where his family is.

Perhaps not where they are, but rather that they are alive and safely out of the inquisition's reach...

Don

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Thirsk will not reveal that his children live even if he keeps fighting Charis. Merlin can trust him yo do that. Also, even though Cayleb has them, Thirsk won't feel compelled to act against his Kingdom. They can begin acting with honor from both sides.

PeterZ wrote:Thirsk will not reveal that his children live even if he keeps fighting Charis. Merlin can trust him yo do that. Also, even though Cayleb has them, Thirsk won't feel compelled to act against his Kingdom. They can begin acting with honor from both sides.

I'm thinking that Thirsk believes that the honorable thing for his Kingdom is to stop fighting Charis. However Clyntn won't allow anyone to be neutral in his Jihad.


Of course he creates his own enemies and motivates them.

BarryKirk wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Thirsk will not reveal that his children live even if he keeps fighting Charis. Merlin can trust him yo do that. Also, even though Cayleb has them, Thirsk won't feel compelled to act against his Kingdom. They can begin acting with honor from both sides.

I'm thinking that Thirsk believes that the honorable thing for his Kingdom is to stop fighting Charis. However Clyntn won't allow anyone to be neutral in his Jihad.


Of course he creates his own enemies and motivates them.

The operative question here is how much longer Clyntahn has to influemce events in Dohlar. With the steamships due go arrive in the Gulf and Hanth pressing in from the landward side, my guess would be not more than a few months before Dohlar is isolated and knocked out of the war...

Don

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Hi Don,

I thought I had responded to this some month's ago, but finding a new letter would surprise Thirsk's valet, who is probably quite familiar with all of his correspondence [if not more] and while I think he's loyal to Thirsk, it's an additional unnecessary risk that a direct live holographic conference via a 'com' avoids while unequivocally demonstrating that Merlin is a seijin, and how honorable the empire of Charis is.

How soon Thirsk is taken into the inner circle is another thread, but I doubt it won't be too lang because if Dohlar breaks with Zion as expected this fall or winter, they're going to need Native Dohlarans up to speed, and I'd include Duke Fern as well if he survives, since he also seems to be quite wise.

But I doubt its going to be that simple or easy, because RFC insists on being as realistic as possible and screwing up the 'best laid plans' is a hallmark of the human condition.

My sense of where the story is headed follows yours, in that Dohlar will break from Zion by the fall or winter given its soon to be untenable position.

The loss of Howard, especially the desperately needed gold and steel will drastically reduce the Go4's military and economic capabilities, that Clyntahn may feel he must move even more quickly to prevent a coup against him, that Nynian cleverly foils, with the Go4 remnant suing for peace, despite all conservative opposition, ie the inquisition, Harchong Et al.

The internal conflicts along might keep the CoGA busy for the next 20 years.

That's all for now.

L

n7axw wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi PalmerSperry,

Kudos for such a clever idea!

But such a letter is quite suspicious to anyone reading it, since Thirsk saw them off personally; so it doesn't make sense unless it was picked up at sea by the searchers, which of course it wasn't.

Thus for the inquisition the obvious question is where did it come from?

OTOH, seeing his daughters and grandchildren in real time holograms talking and moving etc would be far effective, even if he has to wait for Merlin to return [which he most assuredly will] to see them again.

Since the whole purpose of the exercise is to keep Thirsk alive and still in control of the navy, NTM a power within Dohlar, avoiding anything smacking of collusion or cabals is the first order of business.

Once the inquisition has calmed down or been diverted elsewhere, Thirsk might reach out to fellow minded sympathizers, as vetted by Nynian and Nahrmahn, where and when they provide the security with OWL's remotes.

Taking Dohlar off the Go4's team would go a long way to removing the whole of Howard from the Go4's resources as well, which is more than the sheer population, Desnair's gold, and South Harchong's burgeoning industry; making it worth the allocation of these resources.

L

A letter from Thirsk's daughters or grandchildren could be crafted in such a way that no one but Thirsk would know that they are fresh sinse the family left Gorath so that anyone else who happened to find them would think that they are keepsakes of when the family was home. Just a matter of managing context...

The main point of a letter would be to provide reassurance rather than detail Merlin would provide verbally.

Don

-

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

I thought I had responded to this some month's ago, but finding a new letter would surprise Thirsk's valet, who is probably quite familiar with all of his correspondence [if not more] and while I think he's loyal to Thirsk, it's an additional unnecessary risk that a direct live holographic conference via a 'com' avoids while unequivocally demonstrating that Merlin is a seijin, and how honorable the empire of Charis is.

How soon Thirsk is taken into the inner circle is another thread, but I doubt it won't be too lang because if Dohlar breaks with Zion as expected this fall or winter, they're going to need Native Dohlarans up to speed, and I'd include Duke Fern as well if he survives, since he also seems to be quite wise.

But I doubt its going to be that simple or easy, because RFC insists on being as realistic as possible and screwing up the 'best laid plans' is a hallmark of the human condition.

My sense of where the story is headed follows yours, in that Dohlar will break from Zion by the fall or winter given its soon to be untenable position.

The loss of Howard, especially the desperately needed gold and steel will drastically reduce the Go4's military and economic capabilities, that Clyntahn may feel he must move even more quickly to prevent a coup against him, that Nynian cleverly foils, with the Go4 remnant suing for peace, despite all conservative opposition, ie the inquisition, Harchong Et al.

The internal conflicts along might keep the CoGA busy for the next 20 years.

That's all for now.

L

Whatever the risk factor of a letter--personally I think it is minimal-- the risk of telling Thirsk the truth would be very high. Accorsing to what textev we have, his faith goes to the bone, putting him in the same category as Gray Harbor and Green Mountain for the same reasons.

It will be fascinating to see how this works out in the story. I hope the schedule on the book holds.

Don

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SNIP...

n7axw wrote:Whatever the risk factor of a letter--personally I think it is minimal-- the risk of telling Thirsk the truth would be very high. Accorsing to what textev we have, his faith goes to the bone, putting him in the same category as Gray Harbor and Green Mountain for the same reasons.

Don

Don: You state that (with regard to Thirsk) "his faith goes to the bone..."

I absolutely agree, but would also suggest that the same was also true for all of the members of the Inner Circle. UNTIL there was some sort of defining event - indeed some epiphany - whether internally driven or externally driven. Throughout the series, I've been struck by the events that have forced the various members of the Inner Circle to confront their faith and its implications in the face of the new "heretical" information.

In the same way Sharleyan was forced to confront her faith following the Abbey assassination attempt... In the same way that Iris was forced to confront her faith when faced with Hektor's impending death... In the same way that Yairley was forced to confront his faith, not out of the desperate scenarios confronting Sharleyan or Iris but out of his love of Charis and his King... And the list goes on and on. In fact, the only epiphanous scenarios we don't have any textev about are the ones for the Brethern... Everyone else who has been added to the fold had something...