Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy

GabrialSagan wrote:

Relax wrote:The basic premise has a basic foundational assumed flaw. The transtellars will have money in which to finance said conquest. If the league shatters, the economic system also Shatters. Said transtellars go from large assets on their books to having NO assets on their books.

The assets are not going to evaporate overnight,

Relax wrote:Haven't read much history regarding the late 20th century I take it? Try Chile, Venezuela, Argentina, Mexico, Panama, Libya, Most of Europe, especially Warsaw Pact countries, etc. One day the "transtellars" of our time had a massive asset. The next day they had nothing.

Assets get nationalized 100% by whoever owns the territory. IF said planetary new government wishes to join a political union in which said transtellar still resides, they may honor the asset ownership. Or they may honor a partial ownership. In either case they are losing at least 51%.

Unless the Transtellars can move their money offshore, err off planet as myself and many other Americans. I've got a good working relationship with banks in Switzerland and the Caymans. The Caymans, out of a convenience than anything else, since I own property there.

Yet what planet in the Honorverse could the transtellars trust with their money whose natural isolation from a League collapse would shield them from going bust?

Darn, there aren't any, unless they have trustworthy contacts in Manticore or the Andermani. As with bank accounts in Switzerland, an American economic collapse wouldn't cost you your entire fortune. Depending on your investments, could actually make you money.

Discounting my total ignorance of Honorverse economics.

Remember how in the Great Depression banks went bust and took all the deposited money with them? If the government goes bankrupt there is no backstop.

The first thing that happens is capital controls, so no, you can't withdraw your money. Then the government confiscates large parts of it. They they start looking for "looters" and co dis ate their physical property.

kzt wrote:Remember how in the Great Depression banks went bust and took all the deposited money with them? If the government goes bankrupt there is no backstop.

The first thing that happens is capital controls, so no, you can't withdraw your money. Then the government confiscates large parts of it. They they start looking for "looters" and co dis ate their physical property.

And not just your assets in the bank. But that you have hiding in your shoe in the form of your documented gold purchases. Your assets literally become a matter of national security overnight.

I could also see situations where the money is safely hidden but you are not able to access it for various reasons.

For warlords they have to keep in mind that it always possible for them to have a really bad day and run in to someone who dos not like what they have been doing who also has resources to do something unpleasant to them.

kzt wrote:Remember how in the Great Depression banks went bust and took all the deposited money with them? If the government goes bankrupt there is no backstop.

The first thing that happens is capital controls, so no, you can't withdraw your money. Then the government confiscates large parts of it. They they start looking for "looters" and co dis ate their physical property.

That is how it worked on Earth in the 2nd century AD, but in the 20th century PD the complex interstellar economy, things are a little different. For one thing the Solarian League government lacks the ability to confiscate large chunks of wealth. I don't think Kolokoltsov was exaggerating when he said amending the constitution to impose direct taxation would be harder to accomplish than beating the Manties militarily. The banks are not government institutions and forcing them to turn over wealth to central government agents on a Core world with its own warships is no easy task. Remember that "Wealth" is not the same thing as "currency". Even if the Solarian Credit is in the toilet the buildings, factories, tools, and skilled workers are still there waiting for someone to use/steal them.

GabrialSagan wrote:That is how it worked on Earth in the 2nd century AD, but in the 20th century PD the complex interstellar economy, things are a little different. For one thing the Solarian League government lacks the ability to confiscate large chunks of wealth. I don't think Kolokoltsov was exaggerating when he said amending the constitution to impose direct taxation would be harder to accomplish than beating the Manties militarily. The banks are not government institutions and forcing them to turn over wealth to central government agents on a Core world with its own warships is no easy task. Remember that "Wealth" is not the same thing as "currency". Even if the Solarian Credit is in the toilet the buildings, factories, tools, and skilled workers are still there waiting for someone to use/steal them.

Woodrow Wilson got blatantly unconstitutional laws passed that allowed him to imprison a rival candidate for president for exercising his right to speak freely and be anti-war. As Wilson was pushing the US into war to keep his rich supporters from losing everything when the UK and France went bankrupt this couldn't be allowed. However it took years to get them overturned.

So yeah, I expect the government will rubber stamp laws that are clearly not legal under a literal reading of the league charter, and attempting to challenge that will not work, as you will be imprisoned for sedition. And nobody will really care.

Good grief... Why on earth, and in this case, galaxy, are you talking about the sollie system being in tact during said warlord period?

There literally is no physical "wealth" today other than in hard assets. True yesterday, true today, and true tomorrow as well. PROPERTY. FACTORIES. MATERIALS and in the future, probably not materials as fusion makes energy essentially free meaning that the value of materials is also essentially free as the cost of refining a material is transportation(essentially free) and processing(energy intensive). Anything else is completely handwavium value based on feelings. When countries implode, "feelings" get burned, and the make believe "value" of a 100 credit chip becomes 0.01.

Any stable regions currency will raise in value dramatically. Haven... MALIGN...

Here is one thing have Wilson/Roosevelt trying to fight their respective wars with each state being a full autonomous entity also having the right to veto any legislation.

An irony here is the very system that made it easy for the Mandarins to stay in power now works against them by prevent them from making the very changes they need to make to effectively fight a war against the GA.

pnakasone wrote:Here is one thing have Wilson/Roosevelt trying to fight their respective wars with each state being a full autonomous entity also having the right to veto any legislation.

An irony here is the very system that made it easy for the Mandarins to stay in power now works against them by prevent them from making the very changes they need to make to effectively fight a war against the GA.

As has been pointed out, there are mechanics usable to avoid that. Without going to the the "detain all the opposition legislators so we we can pass the enabling act" level, but they will not hesitate to got there if it comes to it.

And here are the kinds of things that the utterly corrupt verge systems will do to bail out their corporate masters

"A new decree establishing that any employee in Venezuela can be effectively made to work in the country's fields as a way to fight the current food crisis is unlawful and effectively amounts to forced labor," Amnesty International said in a statement released on Thursday.