The ART of being reasonable

...but an ancient Old Earth soldier got it exactly right when he said war was simply the continuation of diplomacy by non-diplomatic means.

cthia wrote:It's like attempting diplomacy by telling the big bully that's constantly kicking your ass in school that if he doesn't stop it, you're going to tell your older brother. Yet you know that the bully knows that your older brother is a buck and a quarter undersized too.

Rakhmamort wrote:

cthia wrote:It's like attempting diplomacy by telling the big bully that's constantly kicking your ass in school that if he doesn't stop it, you're going to tell your older brother. Yet you know that the bully knows that your older brother is a buck and a quarter undersized too.

But but but, it's not Manticore that is calling on its big brother . It's Manticore that has been kicking the bully's ass repeatedly that it had to keep on sending bigger and bigger fleets to pound on Manticore.

"I see.” Kolokoltsov wondered how much of that was true and how much spin. On the other hand, Kingsford had been around long enough to know how the game was played. He wouldn’t have said what he’d just said if there hadn’t been a paper trail of memos somewhere which could at least be interpreted to support the analysis he’d just delivered.

“Should I assume, then, Fleet Admiral, that you’d be opposed to any additional fleet actions at this time?”

“Mr. Permanent Senior Undersecretary,” Kingsford said flatly, “any ‘additional fleet actions’ could only be one-sided massacres. Even assuming what Harrington said to Filareta in the recordings they’ve sent us represents a full statement of their capabilities, without holding any nasty tactical surprises in reserve, we simply can’t match them at this time. There probably hasn’t been this great an imbalance in combat power since the introduction of the machine-gun put an end to massed infantry assaults.”

Kolokoltsov’s eyes widened, despite himself, at the frankness of that response. It was refreshingly—and utterly—different from anything Rajampet had ever said.

“It’s really that bad?” he asked, curious to see how far are Kingsford would go.

“It’s probably worse than that, frankly, especially with Haven added to the equation,” the acting CNO said unflinchingly. “For all intents and purposes, the Reserve has just become several billion tons of scrap material. The superdreadnoughts we have mothballed are the wrong ships for this war, and I don’t see any way the existing hulls could be refitted to turn them into effective combatants.”

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:The diplomatic efforts by Manticore weren't just for the League's benefit. Even if there was a low probability of success, they had to try.

They were fighting for their very life against the Republic of Haven. If the Government's actions at that time made it look like, during that very war, they decided to pursue a war against the League as well most of the citizens would conclude that the Government had taken leave of its senses, and rightly so. So they had to pursue at least some form of diplomacy because of public opinion back home.

Another reason to pursue diplomacy is to make it clear to all of the League systems that this war wasn't Manticore's idea, and that they certainly didn't want a war. That will likely pay off down the road and may well get some League systems to switch sides, or at least decide to sit out the war.

Finally, diplomacy didn't really cost Manticore that much. They sent back Sigbee and O'Cleary after New Tuscany and Spindle, and Carmichael did the kabuki theater thing with the Mandarins, but they didn't really have to give anything up to pursue diplomacy.

ART - Chapter Twenty-Nine

Sir Lyman Carmichael, who’d never expected to replace the assassinated James Webster as Manticore’s ambassador to the Solarian League, stood at a fifth-story window and looked down at a scene out of a bad historical holo drama. His perch in one of the Beowulf Assembly delegation’s offices gave him a remarkably good view of it, too.

Frigging idiots, he thought disgustedly. Only Sollies. Nobody else in the entire galaxy would’ve swallowed that line of crap Abruzzi’s passing out! But Sollies? Hook, line, and sinker.

He shook his head. In a reasonable universe, one might have thought continual exposure to lies would instill at least a partial immunity. Looking down at the sea of angry, shouting humanity clogging the plaza outside the Beowulf residence seemed to demonstrate it didn’t. In fact, he was beginning to think continual exposure actually weakened the ability to recognize the truth on those rare occasions when it finally came along.

You’re being cynical again. And unfair, he admitted unwillingly. But not too unfair. It’s not like these morons hadn’t heard both sides of the story—or been exposed to them, anyway—before they decided to go out and demonstrate their stupidity.

For the moment, Carmichael was relatively safe in a personal sense, here with the Beowulf delegation. That shouldn’t have been a significant consideration, but it was in this case. Under interstellar law as accepted by most star nations, his person was legally sacrosanct, no matter what happened to the relations between his star nation and another. Even in time of war, he was supposed to be returned safely to his government’s jurisdiction, just as any ambassadors to the Star Empire were to be repatriated under similar circumstances.

The Solarian League, however, had never gotten around to ratifying that particular interstellar convention. That hadn’t mattered in the past, since no one had been crazy enough to challenge the League, which meant Old Chicago had never been forced to deal with the problem. It left Carmichael in something of a gray area under the current circumstances, however, and he wasn’t at all sure how Kolokoltsov and his cronies might choose to interpret the law in his own case. That was why he’d moved into the Beowulf residence, which enjoyed extraterritorial status under the Constitution. Assuming anyone was paying attention to the Constitution. On the other hand, if things kept building the way they were, Beowulf wasn’t going to be enjoying any sort of legal status within the Solarian League very much longer.

He couldn’t hear the individual chants or shouts through the background surf of crowd noise, not from the fifth floor through a hermetically sealed window. But he knew what they were screaming. And even if he hadn’t known, he could read the placards and holo banners.

MANTICORAN MURDERERS!

BUTCHERS!

HARRINGTON + TREACHERY = MURDER!

REMEMBER FLEET ADMIRAL FILARETA!

ASSASSINS, NOT ADMIRALS!

THIEVES, LIARS, AND MURDERERS!

And there was equal time for Beowulf, of course.

TRAITORS!

MANTICORAN PIMPS!

WHO’S KNIFE IS IN ADMIRAL FILARETA’S BACK?

WHERE’S YOUR THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER?

BEOWULF HELPED MURDER ELEVENTH FLEET!

WHERE WAS ADMIRAL TSANG WHEN ELEVENTH FLEET NEEDED HER?

Carmichael sighed and turned away from the window only to discover someone had been standing behind him.

“Madam Delegate,” he said with a slight bow.

“Mr. Ambassador.” Felicia Hadley, Beowulf’s senior delegate to the Solarian League Assembly, returned his bow. She was a slender woman, with black hair, brown eyes, and a golden complexion. She was at least several T-years older than Carmichael, but the freckles dusted across the bridge of her nose made her look much younger, somehow.

“I was just watching the show,” he said.

“I know. I was watching you watch it.” She smiled slightly. “Impressive, isn’t it?”

“Not as impressive as the fact that Old Chicago’s highly efficient police force seems somehow totally unable to break up this completely un-authorized and spontaneous demonstration.” Carmichael’s tone was poison dry, and this time Hadley actually chuckled.

“The same thought had occurred to me,” she admitted. “Actually, I’ve been wondering whether or not I should add that to my daily indictment on the Assembly floor. It wouldn’t change anything, of course, but it might make me feel a little better.”

cthia wrote:

Rakhmamort wrote:But but but, it's not Manticore that is calling on its big brother . It's Manticore that has been kicking the bully's ass repeatedly that it had to keep on sending bigger and bigger fleets to pound on Manticore.

No, it isn't. You and I know that. But overall League perception - certainly in the beginning and even now in many Solarian officers - was that Manticore would eventually need to call on bigger and badder resources, like their nonexistent reserve. The League never thought they were in danger of losing the war because they lost a few battles - even if the battles were decisive - pin it on that good ol' reliable institutional arrogance. The League never thought that the RMN could stand up to a formal dispatching of its might. Heck, League thinking never even got that far - their thinking was that the weak neobarbs wouldn't even have the stomach to try. They thought it was a bluff. Many League officers still haven't figured it out! Again, reasonably, why would they?

In fact, consider this. Ch. 41 of ART...

"I see.” Kolokoltsov wondered how much of that was true and how much spin. On the other hand, Kingsford had been around long enough to know how the game was played. He wouldn’t have said what he’d just said if there hadn’t been a paper trail of memos somewhere which could at least be interpreted to support the analysis he’d just delivered.

“Should I assume, then, Fleet Admiral, that you’d be opposed to any additional fleet actions at this time?”

“Mr. Permanent Senior Undersecretary,” Kingsford said flatly, “any ‘additional fleet actions’ could only be one-sided massacres. Even assuming what Harrington said to Filareta in the recordings they’ve sent us represents a full statement of their capabilities, without holding any nasty tactical surprises in reserve, we simply can’t match them at this time. There probably hasn’t been this great an imbalance in combat power since the introduction of the machine-gun put an end to massed infantry assaults.”

Kolokoltsov’s eyes widened, despite himself, at the frankness of that response. It was refreshingly—and utterly—different from anything Rajampet had ever said.

“It’s really that bad?” he asked, curious to see how far are Kingsford would go.

“It’s probably worse than that, frankly, especially with Haven added to the equation,” the acting CNO said unflinchingly. “For all intents and purposes, the Reserve has just become several billion tons of scrap material. The superdreadnoughts we have mothballed are the wrong ships for this war, and I don’t see any way the existing hulls could be refitted to turn them into effective combatants.”

Bold line is my own and not the author's.

That still has to be pointed out? Even after Crandall was roasted and Filareta was toasted!?

PLUS! Technically one might argue that the Manties DID have to call on a nonexistent brother for help in the end. Not a blood brother mind you. But an adopted one - the RHN. In the long run w/o Haven's help, how could Manticore reasonably have thought that they had anything to say that the arrogant League was interested in hearing?

cthia wrote:PLUS! Technically one might argue that the Manties DID have to call on a nonexistent brother for help in the end. Not a blood brother mind you. But an adopted one - the RHN. In the long run w/o Haven's help, how could Manticore reasonably have thought that they had anything to say that the arrogant League was interested in hearing?

caias wrote:

cthia wrote:PLUS! Technically one might argue that the Manties DID have to call on a nonexistent brother for help in the end. Not a blood brother mind you. But an adopted one - the RHN. In the long run w/o Haven's help, how could Manticore reasonably have thought that they had anything to say that the arrogant League was interested in hearing?

I might argue that they didn't *have* to call on the nonexistent brother. They did that primarily to encourage Filareta to surrender instead of dying horribly, not because there was any doubt about victory. I don't think any of us have much doubt that Honor's 40 SDs with Apollo System Defense Pods and LACs out the wazoo would have still dumpstered 11th fleet if push had come to shove.

In fact, given that Filareta fired anyway, in retrospect, it might have been more emphatic for the Sollies if Grayson and the RHN hadn't been there, and it may or may not have changed their diplomatic thinking. Or not, who can know with those apparatchiks.