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Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy

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Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by GabrialSagan   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:59 pm

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Honor Among Enemies illustrates the relative ease by which single individual can conquer a planet with a few ships and a few thousand powered armored soldiers willing to break heads. The transtellars have paid their kickbacks to OFS so they could loot planets and enslave their people into debt peonage for centuries. But very soon OFS will be so preoccupied with Alliance squadrons of wallers knocking at their front door as battlecruisers raid their rear areas on top of the insurrections that for all intents and purposes of Office of Frontier Security will become an irrelevance. Most of what has been written about by Mr. Weber has focused on the positive of oppressed people throwing off the yoke of their transtellar masters and free themselves from the oppression of OFS. But one thing that has been repeated several times in the books is that the perceived invincibility of the Solarian League Navy does help to keep warlordism in check, and very soon that will be gone.

Say what you will about OFS, but it was the system that people knew. I want to know what sort of free for all will arise from its ashes. What is to stop an enterprising wealthy sollie from buying a few starships from Technodyne or Mannerheim, hiring some mercs from Mesa or Monica, blowing away the antiquated peacetime navy of a third rate star nation, and declaring oneself King? Especially when you consider that some of those kings will have the backing of transtellars looking for where to put the money they used to earmark for OFS. There are bound to be more than a few living in the core worlds. The Alliance Navy and SLN are going to be too busy blowing the crap out of one another to have time to take actions against that sort of flagrant conquering.
So considering the costs, benefits, and alternative investments what does the future of warlordism in the Honorverse look like?
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by Somtaaw   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:22 pm

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This is loosely covered in the books regarding Maya Sector and OFS Governer Barregos with Admiral Rozsak (misspelled but close enough).


They expected warlordism to run rampant, but they also didn't really count that the League was going to run square into Manticore and bounce like it has been. But their military buildup plan is specifically to keep their whole sector protected from warlords because THEY plan to be the biggest, baddest and meanest warlords claiming those systems.

Another time we saw warlords popping up everywhere, was during the post-Saint Hust era of the Haven Republic, all those former StateSec Generals became warlords, and Theisman and company hunted them down.


But despite it clearly being both pretty easy, and possibly pretty lucrative to become a warlord, we're unlikely to actually see many besides Barregos. Unless they're going to play a role in "working with" Manticore and the Grand Alliance. We might get lucky enough to see some of it in the mini-book companion types, but with all the work David's doing, Im not sure if we will.
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by kzt   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:04 pm

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So you hire a small fleet and a small army and conquer Nowhere. So, Mr president for Life, what are you planning on doing when the guy who actually runs the fleet decides he wants your job and your money?
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by Eagleeye   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:27 pm

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kzt wrote:So you hire a small fleet and a small army and conquer Nowhere. So, Mr president for Life, what are you planning on doing when the guy who actually runs the fleet decides he wants your job and your money?


Why should (s)he do that?? Very unhealthy kind of thing, and very stupid, too. From the POV of that person it would be much more preferable to be the puppetmaster behind the throne than the puppet on it ...
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by GabrialSagan   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:39 pm

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Eagleeye wrote:
kzt wrote:So you hire a small fleet and a small army and conquer Nowhere. So, Mr president for Life, what are you planning on doing when the guy who actually runs the fleet decides he wants your job and your money?


Why should (s)he do that?? Very unhealthy kind of thing, and very stupid, too. From the POV of that person it would be much more preferable to be the puppetmaster behind the throne than the puppet on it ...

Agreed. Besides, most of the money would be in a bank on a secure world far away. Even if there the occasional uprising among merc corps, the problem hasn't gone away. You just swap one warlord for another.

As long as it is of a greater short term gain to looting an old planet than colonizing a new one someone is going to try it.
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by cthia   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:45 pm

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What is to stop the, filthy rich and just plain filthy, Mandarins from doing the same thing post League? Seems to me 'twould be even easier for them - knowing the ins and outs of the League and plugged into the good ol' boy network.

Edit: ends and outs -> ins and outs. Doh!

My apoplexogies.
Last edited by cthia on Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by kzt   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:49 pm

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GabrialSagan wrote:Agreed. Besides, most of the money would be in a bank on a secure world far away. Even if there the occasional uprising among merc corps, the problem hasn't gone away. You just swap one warlord for another.

Well, since the whole idea of interstellar banking requires you being able to send messages to the bank to have them move around money, I suspect they can get them to do this. Being even more sociopathic than Mr. Ex-President for Life, I suspect Mr. New President for Life can come up with "compelling arguments" with which to convince ex to assist him in this quest.

And the point isn't that it is impossible, it's that there are very serious issues to the whole conceit that you can easily hire people to do this. Because if they are doing sociopathic things solely for your money, why not eliminate you and take all the money, and enjoy the lifestyle that you had?
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by kzt   » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:52 pm

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cthia wrote:What is to stop the, filthy rich and just plain filthy, Mandarins from doing the same thing post League? Seems to me 'twould be even easier for them - knowing the ends and outs of the League and plugged into the good ol' boy network.

Who is personally loyal to them?

That's the advantage of a military unit, there is already an established structure and, if people believe that the leaders are competent and generally loyal downward, they get decent amount of loyalty and trust.
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by cthia   » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:10 am

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kzt wrote:
cthia wrote:What is to stop the, filthy rich and just plain filthy, Mandarins from doing the same thing post League? Seems to me 'twould be even easier for them - knowing the ends and outs of the League and plugged into the good ol' boy network.

Who is personally loyal to them?

That's the advantage of a military unit, there is already an established structure and, if people believe that the leaders are competent and generally loyal downward, they get decent amount of loyalty and trust.

Not loyal to them inasmuch as arrogant institutional hate for the uppity neobarbs - and the color of Mandarin money. I also suspect that many are not going to be wanted in a post League and may be facing war crimes - as traitors and more. Many may follow the Mandarins for lack of anywhere else "safe" to go. Sort of a safety in numbers. The galaxy is plenty large enough for another Maytag. Or call them Hoovers - sucking up every criminal element they can find.

Conquer it and they will come.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Costs of warlordism in a post-solarian galaxy
Post by Fox2!   » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:22 am

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cthia wrote:
Conquer it and they will come.


I can't see the Mandarins having enough personal charisma to keep troops (mercs or "regulars") from taking their money, doing the "job" and then deciding there was more value in becoming warlords themselves, rather than continuing in a subordinate role.
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