Defensive pods

--snipping--

Relax wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:In short it breaks down to: efficiency in terms of $$$. To stow pods externally for longer periods of time is imminently doable, but costs $$$ not only in additional ship hull cost but also in maintenance. Also, yes, gives a giant offensive punch, but in many circumstances, it is not offensive punch that is required in new designs, but rather much better defensive capabilities.

$$$ is not infinite. At some point KISS, is superior.

So, I could see CA's having this ability on their hulls, but not any other class other than CL maybe. IE go on an independent 600LY patrol requiring months without outside ammo ship or base support.

Lost point -- not to y'all overall but to this thread. Until "recently" (DDM and MDM ranges) having the extra pod punch on a small ship didn't make a whole lot of sense, because there wasn't time to get them into space under control in useful salvos, use 'em or lose 'em kicked in, etc. Now, however -- too much space [star system coverage needs wise], too few ships. But at the DDM engagement range, even the Rolands can put their entire pod loadout into space under control WAY before an enemy missile salvo [even if it were a matching DDM] can force them into battle maneuvers (spinning the ship, turning wedge on to the enemy, etc. plus the off-bore capability lets these ships fight differently anyway)

As y'all noted, for extended missions it now makes sense to allow a ship to carry as many unpowered pods as can be fit on the hull of the ship without blocking the small ship ports -- because most of the sensors for normal use are in the hammerheads. That said, I also think in the HonorVerse the closest we've seen a ship design that would this would make sense with is the Mars-D class, which was said to be hugely overpowered in terms of wedge and IC strength.

I am NOT saying that's the smallest ship, by the way -- but that a ship can be built with enough extra wedge/IC to allow it to extend the field away from the core hull far carry as many unpowered pods as might be needed for those missions... meaning that a "missile pod cruiser" hasn't been built yet, likely in the light heavy range or greater. A heavy CL or Sag-C variant also has the bow and stern walls, which makes them even more useful for the extended range solo ops, as well.

ummm... hmm... well...

OK: start with capacitors - self-discharge of a capacitor occurs as charges migrate across the dielectric under the influence of the electric field between plates, and being in vacuum won't prevent that. in fact, even using vacuum as a dielectric doesn't stop that - and does reduce the capacitance substantially [as in 2-4x]. Vacuum capacitors are used when you need small values at extremely high voltages, and don't mind an enormous size penalty to get them.

In any case, from what Himself has said, 'capacitor' is a misnomer: they're actually high-density plasma storage rings built [presumably] using superconducting magnets. Basic physics dictates that these would have very limited lifetimes as the plasma cools via synchrotron radiation and diffusion to the walls.

Now, you're proposing that the pods be vacuum-welded to the hull. Fine, that should be quite effective for holding them in place, although as someone else has pointed out it assumes facts about the compensator that are not in evidence. Question is, how do you plan to _detach_ said pods when the moment comes? And how much refurbishment of the polished areas will be required before new pods can be attached. If hooking up pods is a yard job, the method is of doubtful utility.

One of your alternative suggestions was using electromagnets. One assumes that that comes from the use of 'battle steel' as a name for one of the materials used. And everybody knows that steel is magnetic, right? AFAICT, battle steel is a long, long way from anything we'd recognise. And the fact is that a good many of the modern steels that could lie on the development path to it are _not_ magnetic. So that assumption also rests on facts not in evidence when it comes to to the hull materials. There's also the fact that electromagnets can draw a _lot_ of power [and superconducting magnets do _not_ not draw power; they just don't waste any of it in resistive losses].

Relax wrote:Start with what needs to be "beamed" before going off the deep end into pontification land without any borders.

Pods reside in 0g..... There are NO forces on them at all. Could literally have nothing more than a polished plate on the hull that a polished plate on the pod aligns up to. Vanderwals forces are sufficient from that point onwards for attachment. Could use micro electro magnets, an actuated hook, or bubblegum and it would work.

The only "beamed" power necessary, is however much power is required to keep the capacitors from potentially self discharging so they can start the fusion core when required. The communications power required is infinitesimal in comparison. Other than that, there is no power drain.

Since these are handwavium super capacitors to begin with, what is required is a complete unknown. Are pod capacitors the same as those on missiles? Those on LAC's/ships? Could be nothing more than maintaining temperature. Could bleed out to surrounding structure over time. Nothing is rubbing together (atmosphere)so capacitors cannot self charge themselves via electro statics as there is no atmosphere in space... Who knows.

It was stated somewhere that battle steel is actually a carbon based nanocomposite.

Velcro is still my suggestion. But industrial metal velcro, not the stuff you use for shoes. Though that would probably work.

Well...erm, uh...

Exterior of a ship is not battlesteel. It is some composite armor scheme with radiation shielding on top of that. Battle steel is just the hull.

Honorverse engineers supposedly aren't stupid enough to use an electromagnet without using a material with magnetic properties... Pick your poison.

You assumed same same material for polished surfaces and therefore it could cold weld... There was a reason I stated vanderwalls forces as an option.

Well, since capacitors on ships run, or are operated at stand by, 24/7/365, one would have to presume that their design allows for trickle charging to maintain their plasma potential...

And why on earth would you assume I assumed air medium capacitors? Not a single capacitor sold today, nor for the last 50+ years uses such a medium outside of variable capacity buggers used in the RF industry. I actually used to use them daily in my HAM radios to change frequency. So, in this case, your assumption could have been correct. Besides, hardly would need a variable capacitor... An excuse to "teach" my woeful pleeb buns? An excellent use of time.

Sorry, I must have snipped wrong. _somebody_ claimed that vacuum would prevent self-discharge of capacitors. Which experience suggests is not the case even when the vacuum is _inside_ the capacitor.

Relax wrote:Well...erm, uh...

Exterior of a ship is not battlesteel. It is some composite armor scheme with radiation shielding on top of that. Battle steel is just the hull.

Honorverse engineers supposedly aren't stupid enough to use an electromagnet without using a material with magnetic properties... Pick your poison.

You assumed same same material for polished surfaces and therefore it could cold weld... There was a reason I stated vanderwalls forces as an option.

Well, since capacitors on ships run, or are operated at stand by, 24/7/365, one would have to presume that their design allows for trickle charging to maintain their plasma potential...

And why on earth would you assume I assumed air medium capacitors? Not a single capacitor sold today, nor for the last 50+ years uses such a medium outside of variable capacity buggers used in the RF industry. I actually used to use them daily in my HAM radios to change frequency. So, in this case, your assumption could have been correct. Besides, hardly would need a variable capacitor... An excuse to "teach" my woeful pleeb buns? An excellent use of time.