Git your pencils out and design me a ship!

Lord Skimper wrote:Cohort

DDS (small)

75000 tons

Broadside
SD Scale Laser in each broadside
Flanked by DD Scale Lasers

12 PD
18 CM

Chase
SD Scale Laser
6 PD

The Cohort is a Small Escort and Customs patrol Ship.

For once however, your ship almost matches the tonnage if it were more reasonably armed. You want to put about 2/3 of the point defense a Roland class has, and it's not also trying to squeeze an all-up SD laser into its broadside, instead settling for merely 5 destroyer lasers.

You might barely get a single SD laser in the broadside, if it stretched from broadside to broadside... lasers are long you need enough room to mount them and SD lasers are presumably longer than cruiser weight, which are longer than destroyer weight.

If you downsize the SD energy beams for cruiser, possibly battlecruiser weight lasers, you might actually have a ship that can perform the role you envision, is actually possible to be built, and isn't a wet dream wishlist.

SharkHunter wrote:You're a newly freed sector capitol system with a defense agreement with Manticore and plenty of resources to build not only ships, but a shipyard to take care of this neck of the woods. Oh, and by the way, since you've got access to nearly 1st line GA tech, might as well get into the military ship building game full time, protect ourselves, and sell good ships to others...

If I'm supposed to be some newly freed sector capital, I'd probably look at what Maya was doing, and actually do my best to clone half of it.

I'd "export" a missile-ship a little better built than the ones Rozsak used at Torch, probably closer to the form of Q-ship Sirius because then it'll have the cargo space to do something when it isn't busy being a warship. That along should give most of MY systems that I'm responsible for general protection in their own systems from pirates, and also double for protection enroute between systems.

I would also be exporting dispatch boats that are specifically designed to be at the upper quarter of dispatch boat speeds; or upwards of 700 gravs acceleration for normal space. [note: that this speed actually seemed possible even without GA tech, so it's possible that Manticoran DBs might even be able to push almost 1000 gravs nowadays]


On the side, I'd also be trying to build a relatively small task force of battlecruiser sized ships, whose primarily role is to be deployed in citadels scattered across my region. If a force arrives to try conquering one of my systems, the Q-ship missile boats would try to delay while a DB scoots to the closest battlecruiser node and whistles up some backup.

Said battlecruisers would be something like the Nike's, those are all almost purely "old tech", if you exclude their Keyhole platform and GA compensators and nodes. If I can get full-up Nike's, I'd build those, otherwise I'd try to get something about as close to that as I could.

If I couldn't get some "export" version of a Nike, or I'm not cleared for that tech, I'd want to buy Haven's Triumphant battleship designs. Redesign for bow and stern bucklers, overhaul and update the PDLC's and CM tubes, and since it happens to already be designed with capital missile tubes in mind, trying to get Mk 23's or downsizing to DDM Mk 16's (mod G again if possible)

--snipping, myself primarily--

Somtaaw wrote:If I'm supposed to be some newly freed sector capital, I'd probably look at what Maya was doing, and actually do my best to clone half of it.

I'd "export" a missile-ship a little better built than the ones Rozsak used at Torch, probably closer to the form of Q-ship Sirius because then it'll have the cargo space to do something when it isn't busy being a warship. That along should give most of MY systems that I'm responsible for general protection in their own systems from pirates, and also double for protection enroute between systems.
...

On the side, I'd also be trying to build a relatively small task force of battlecruiser sized ships, whose primarily role is to be deployed in citadels scattered across my region. If a force arrives to try conquering one of my systems, the Q-ship missile boats would try to delay while a DB scoots to the closest battlecruiser node and whistles up some backup.
....

If I couldn't get some "export" version of a Nike, or I'm not cleared for that tech, I'd want to buy Haven's Triumphant battleship designs. Redesign for bow and stern bucklers, overhaul and update the PDLC's and CM tubes, and since it happens to already be designed with capital missile tubes in mind, trying to get Mk 23's or downsizing to DDM Mk 16's (mod G again if possible)

Liking the BC idea, but here's an interesting thought -- given that the Q-Ship would likely be the flag --

Rather than the battleship size, what if you went entirely for an equivalent weight of the "Reliant" size BC's, almost like a "big Sag-C" -- with racked pods, not tractored? You'd have a helluva couple of hitters when needed should FF come over the Hyper wall, but your build rate would likely be high enough to more quickly base squadrons of the BC's in each system.

Also, someone posted about why would folks build ships to chase down pirates, there's two facets, obviously you've got to have safe shipping... But the more important reason to have BC level ships is to keep a Warnecke type group from setting up shop; they come over the wall with their set of ships to take over your star system, and ka-boom, no more pirate squadron.

Yes, LACs can be the SDF. But that's not much help when said pirate ships get a look see, decide to run away, hyper out and (being a sector capitol) you now that they're simply going to try again elsewhere, right? Better to pursue and ka-boom.

SharkHunter wrote:Rather than the battleship size, what if you went entirely for an equivalent weight of the "Reliant" size BC's, almost like a "big Sag-C" -- with racked pods, not tractored? You'd have a helluva couple of hitters when needed should FF come over the Hyper wall, but your build rate would likely be high enough to more quickly base squadrons of the BC's in each system.

I'd only build enough capital ships to work in a nodal strength. 2 or 3 squadrons who respond to situations nearby, rather than penny packet deployments that make it easy for you to overwhelm. If you scouted my non-nodes, you'd think I only have a squadron of Q-ship/arsenal ships... but anywhere from 3 to 7 days away is multiple squadrons of capital ships ready for fast response. So what time I lose by building big, I'm gaining back because I'm not building too many, just enough to provide security.

That's why my primary line of defense is also going to be something loosely based off the Maya Masquerade arsenal ships, but built a little more solidly like the Sirius was. Proper sidewalls, internal bulkheads, damage control remotes, but lots of cargo space because I will be also be using them mixed in with my standard merchants as Q-ships. Serving only internal trade, I can protect my local shipping by seeding these in, while my regular (unarmed) merchants would service long-haul routes that leave my personal space.

I don't have to be strong everywhere, I just have to strongpoints that are mostly too tough to be cracked to protect where I'm weak.

Somtaaw wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:Cohort

DDS (small)

75000 tons

Broadside
SD Scale Laser in each broadside
Flanked by DD Scale Lasers

12 PD
18 CM

Chase
SD Scale Laser
6 PD

The Cohort is a Small Escort and Customs patrol Ship.

For once however, your ship almost matches the tonnage if it were more reasonably armed. You want to put about 2/3 of the point defense a Roland class has, and it's not also trying to squeeze an all-up SD laser into its broadside, instead settling for merely 5 destroyer lasers.

You might barely get a single SD laser in the broadside, if it stretched from broadside to broadside... lasers are long you need enough room to mount them and SD lasers are presumably longer than cruiser weight, which are longer than destroyer weight.

If you downsize the SD energy beams for cruiser, possibly battlecruiser weight lasers, you might actually have a ship that can perform the role you envision, is actually possible to be built, and isn't a wet dream wishlist.

Where do you get your info from? Never heard that an SD laser is so long... power intensive but then a Graser can fit in a LAC but a Laser can't fit in a craft 25 times bigger.

Lord Skimper wrote:Cohort

DDS (small)

75000 tons

Broadside
SD Scale Laser in each broadside
Flanked by DD Scale Lasers

12 PD
18 CM

Chase
SD Scale Laser
6 PD

The Cohort is a Small Escort and Customs patrol Ship.

Why even consider a ship without missiles? Every possible adversary is going to be armed with laser-head missiles. Unarmed merchants don't count as adversaries, they're just targets.

let me design a truly effective system defence LAC. since it won't be carrier based, make it bigger, which means a fusion plant.

Start with 5 round revolver missile tubes that fire Mk-16 missiles.

Add a BC Graser.

then add 4 tubes that can fire viper missiles.

The LAC will be twice the size of the shrike, 4 of them will be almost as good as a roland in shipkiller mode for almost the same tonnage, about the same crew.

darrell wrote:let me design a truly effective system defence LAC. since it won't be carrier based, make it bigger, which means a fusion plant.

...

The LAC will be twice the size of the shrike, 4 of them will be almost as good as a roland in shipkiller mode for almost the same tonnage, about the same crew.

Twice the size of a Shrike sounds a lot like descriptions of the Nat Turner class frigates of Torch. "Like two shrikes back to back," OWTTE.

darrell wrote:Start with 5 round revolver missile tubes that fire Mk-16 missiles.

A single revolver, or the four revolvers of a Shrike B? Can a revolver even be adapted for fusion missiles?

The Ferret doesn't use revolvers and carries twice as many missiles; it uses a conventional magazine and the space a shrike uses for its graser.

Finally, you're talking about a ship ~~1/4 the size of a Roland with MK-16s. However, House of Steel says:

On the other hand, it is clear that the RMN sees a role for the destroyer today and into the future, as evidenced by the new Roland class. The advent of the multi-drive missile and the fact that the Roland appears to be the smallest hyper-capable ship type able to carry a meaningful number of these missiles indicate to many that the destroyer will be with us for a long time, even if it masses as much as an old-style light cruiser.

Much of the size requirement comes from the requirements of the micro-fusion power plants in the MK-16s; Even after stripping out 2/3 of the support equipment and bunching tubes in groups of three.

darrell wrote:then add 4 tubes that can fire viper missiles.

Shrike-B and Ferret LACs have 4CM and 6PDLC forward and aft, for a total of eight tubes that fire the MK31 CM (basis of the Viper. It wouldn't take much modification to upgraade all eight to Viper capability.

Except for missile range -- for a missile it's doubtful you could squeeze in -- a Shrike-B would appear to be more powerful.

It is a customs patrol ship. What are you going to use missiles for? If you need missiles you can tow a missile pod or 20.

Lord Skimper wrote:It is a customs patrol ship. What are you going to use missiles for? If you need missiles you can tow a missile pod or 20.

Warning shots for ships out of range of your energy weapons that won't heave to for inspection?