Git your pencils out and design me a ship!

Not sure if this is "Sharkhunter bored at work time, we're all waiting for the next book's eARC or what time, etc." but anyway...

Since we're all agreed that the SLN-SD's are big ole hunka junks, the League is about to get dismembered, and those wonderful RMN shipyards done got themselves blowed up...

You're a newly freed sector capitol system with a defense agreement with Manticore and plenty of resources to build not only ships, but a shipyard to take care of this neck of the woods. Oh, and by the way, since you've got access to nearly 1st line GA tech, might as well get into the military ship building game full time, protect ourselves, and sell good ships to others...

Except. What do you build to sell? Personally I'm going to pull a Skimper here and say... How about something like a vicious cross between Sirius (OBS) (mil-spec compensator and shields, etc.) and HMAMC Wayfarer. The LAC bay idea can be kept or instead have holds that can pop out say, DDM shooting (or controlling) nasty bigger boats, and in lieu of crew, you get... lots and lots of space for more missiles, pods, and MARINES.

Whatchyagonna build and whoyagonna sell to?

How abut a small LAC carrier, but using something similar to the RoH LAC's with their reduced enviomental system.

Basically a LAC with a 2 week envirocapacity that gets dropped by the carrier to do 1 week patrols.
The carrier then moves on to the next pickup/drop off.
Pre arranging a pickup time and location.

The LAC then pootles along under stealth on it's patrol.

Meanwhile the carrier refreshes the LAC's stores and the crew spend a week out of the LAC.

Pro's, don't have to wait while the LAC heads out to it's patrol station, more importantly using up it's limited enviro. Always have one on station due to hot swapping the LAC.
No, or little, predictable time for the LAC to turn and head in system, or to catch the replacemen outbound.

Cons. An awful lot of trouble to keep LAC's on station on remote parols.

But given we are using the lower life capacity RoH type LAC's it might be worth selling as a package.

And is likely doable without access to 1st line GA tech.

Sell to any of the recently 'liberated' solarian worlds for system/belt patrol.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

SharkHunter wrote:Not sure if this is "Sharkhunter bored at work time, we're all waiting for the next book's eARC or what time, etc." but anyway...

Since we're all agreed that the SLN-SD's are big ole hunka junks, the League is about to get dismembered, and those wonderful RMN shipyards done got themselves blowed up...

You're a newly freed sector capitol system with a defense agreement with Manticore and plenty of resources to build not only ships, but a shipyard to take care of this neck of the woods. Oh, and by the way, since you've got access to nearly 1st line GA tech, might as well get into the military ship building game full time, protect ourselves, and sell good ships to others...

Except. What do you build to sell? Personally I'm going to pull a Skimper here and say... How about something like a vicious cross between Sirius (OBS) (mil-spec compensator and shields, etc.) and HMAMC Wayfarer. The LAC bay idea can be kept or instead have holds that can pop out say, DDM shooting (or controlling) nasty bigger boats, and in lieu of crew, you get... lots and lots of space for more missiles, pods, and MARINES.

Whatchyagonna build and whoyagonna sell to?

Most sector headquarters will have a squadron or two BC's along with some CA's, CL's and DD's, along with a couple of troop transports. The primary determination is what "nearly 1st line GA tech" is.

I would start with A LAC and courier production line. The worlds under my watch need some protection, and piracy is going to go up in the near future. A single squadron of LAC's, carried in the cargo bay will take care of that, and a courier boat can run to get help. Both couriers and LAC's can be sold without problems of releasing too much technology, although LAC's sold might be an "export" variety with downgraded EW.

Next step would be to build a shipyard that can build/repair BC's and below, so I ca repair battle damage of my units and build replacements.

If "nearly 1st line GA tech" is what Erewhon got, I would modify my current CA and BC's to fire capacitor DDM's, my CL's and DD's to fire LERM's. Last step would be to build an SD shipyard and podnoughts.

under normal circumstances I would not sell anything bigger than a light cruiser, due to the risk of the recipient turning around and attacking one of my systems.

Annachie wrote:How abut a small LAC carrier, but using something similar to the RoH LAC's with their reduced enviomental system.

Basically a LAC with a 2 week envirocapacity that gets dropped by the carrier to do 1 week patrols.
The carrier then moves on to the next pickup/drop off.
Pre arranging a pickup time and location.

The LAC then pootles along under stealth on it's patrol.

Meanwhile the carrier refreshes the LAC's stores and the crew spend a week out of the LAC.

Pro's, don't have to wait while the LAC heads out to it's patrol station, more importantly using up it's limited enviro. Always have one on station due to hot swapping the LAC.
No, or little, predictable time for the LAC to turn and head in system, or to catch the replacemen outbound.

Cons. An awful lot of trouble to keep LAC's on station on remote parols.

But given we are using the lower life capacity RoH type LAC's it might be worth selling as a package.

And is likely doable without access to 1st line GA tech.

Sell to any of the recently 'liberated' solarian worlds for system/belt patrol.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

sounds like a good idea to me, with one exception: RoH LAC's have only 96 hours life support. It would work on a 3 days on, 3 days off schedule, and a BC sized carrier can easily carry a squaron of LAC's, and have extra supplies for the second squadron that is out on patrol.

darrell wrote:sounds like a good idea to me, with one exception: RoH LAC's have only 96 hours life support. It would work on a 3 days on, 3 days off schedule, and a BC sized carrier can easily carry a squaron of LAC's, and have extra supplies for the second squadron that is out on patrol.

I think you're underestimating the size of LACs.

A squadron of LACs is 8-ships, and the bays for those would seem to take up at least a 30m high, 240m long, 80m deep cube.
A normal BC is only around 80m high, 700m long, and 90m deep. (And remember you can probably only squeeze the LAC bays into the centeral section; between the tapers. That looks more like 1/3rd the total hull length - or around 230m.
And given how the hull curves (resulting in reduced width) I don't think you can double-stack the bays.

So technically a squadron's worth of LAC bays can fit into the volume of a BC's central hull. But only by making it vitually hollow and displacing everything else into the tapers and hammerheads.

The minimum size for even a squadron worth of LACs seem, to me, to be closer to a BC(L) or maybe even a touch bigger, say 2.5-3.75 mtons. (Though there's a major step function for LAC's carried as the hull size increases: a drastic jump once the draught is sufficient to have 2 rows of bays stacked vertical, and another once the beam is sufficent to have them in both broadsides. But that takes an DN sized hull of just over 6 mtons.

SharkHunter wrote:You're a newly freed sector capitol system with a defense agreement with Manticore and plenty of resources to build not only ships, but a shipyard to take care of this neck of the woods. Oh, and by the way, since you've got access to nearly 1st line GA tech, might as well get into the military ship building game full time, protect ourselves, and sell good ships to others...

Whatchyagonna build and whoyagonna sell to?

That whoyagonna sell to is the problem. Since the League only has "sector capitols" in OFS and the verge, there's not going to be a lot of neighbors who can afford a navy.

How your defense agreement with Manticore is written is going to limit what tech you can sell without Manticoran permission. That's going to affect "whatchagonnabuild" to a large extent.

To start small, I'm going to build 282/Shrike A class LACs with spinal Grazers. A modular LAC bay suitable for mounting in a freighter's cargo bay would be included in the package. The LAC bay could also be mounted in a fort or space station for local defense.

I'm probably going to make a LAC/DD sized Dual-Drive missile. Individually, the drives are going to be short ranged, but with a ballistic segment, range would be nearly unlimited. My LACs are probably going to be bigger than Manticoran 282/Shrike-A types, to accommodate the DDMs, but not as big as Torch's Frigates.

I might build Nat Turner class frigates if I can get a license and plans... With my LAC sized DDMs they would be formidable pirate hunters.

I'd build Roland sized Destroyers/light cruisers with flag decks and marine quarters for a platoon. I'd use a slightly larger version of my LAC-DDM instead of the spinal mounts forced by MK-16 fusion tech for a conventional broadside. They'd have 50%-100% of the salvo density of a Roland.

I'd build a Heavy Cruiser/Battle Cruiser modeled on SLN cruiser hulls. They'd have internal tubes for a DDM variant and heavy anti-missile defenses (CM, PDLC, and decoys.) I'd reduce Crew size over SLN and offer customized command decks to suit the customer's preferences. Flag accommodations would be limited or the space turned over to expand Marine quarters.

I'd (eventually) build a BC(P) with a Keyhole I style relay drones. (actual KH-I if Manticore permits.) It might even be a BC(LP) with Battleship or near-DN size. It would be configured to use RMN flat-pack pod variants with capitol-grade capacitor DDMs. Flag deck and Marine quarters suitable for squadron/fleet level command. (suitable for a small navy flagship.) I'd address the perceived problems of vulnerability by using pod exits not constricted by the hammerhead, and re-position Keyhole bays for thicker armor on the sides.

The core of my arms business would be Havenite style system defense missiles, pods, adapted for command ship control or Moriarity level C3 modules, and LACs/LAC bay modules.

ETA:
As each larger ship/missile was added to the catalogue, I'd equip my own Navy with them first and give each design at least a year's operational test before offering them for sale.

Jonathan_S wrote:

darrell wrote:sounds like a good idea to me, with one exception: RoH LAC's have only 96 hours life support. It would work on a 3 days on, 3 days off schedule, and a BC sized carrier can easily carry a squaron of LAC's, and have extra supplies for the second squadron that is out on patrol.

I think you're underestimating the size of LACs.

A squadron of LACs is 8-ships, and the bays for those would seem to take up at least a 30m high, 240m long, 80m deep cube.
A normal BC is only around 80m high, 700m long, and 90m deep. (And remember you can probably only squeeze the LAC bays into the centeral section; between the tapers. That looks more like 1/3rd the total hull length - or around 230m.
And given how the hull curves (resulting in reduced width) I don't think you can double-stack the bays.

So technically a squadron's worth of LAC bays can fit into the volume of a BC's central hull. But only by making it vitually hollow and displacing everything else into the tapers and hammerheads.

The minimum size for even a squadron worth of LACs seem, to me, to be closer to a BC(L) or maybe even a touch bigger, say 2.5-3.75 mtons. (Though there's a major step function for LAC's carried as the hull size increases: a drastic jump once the draught is sufficient to have 2 rows of bays stacked vertical, and another once the beam is sufficent to have them in both broadsides. But that takes an DN sized hull of just over 6 mtons.

You did make me think. From a volume perspective, Haven can pack 256 Cimeterres on an approximatly 8M hull, so the only thing that would prevent being able to pack 8-12 Cimeterres on a BC sized carrier is LAC length.

A typical 800K BC is about 90M wide. The minotaur is 189M wide, hydra is 188M wide, and an 8M ton SD is about 200M wide. If the Cimeterres are maximum length, (98M) you would be able to easily carry 16 LAC's on a 1.2M hull. If the Cimeterres are 82M or less, (shrike / ferret / katana = 70M) you would be able to carry 8 LAC's on a 600K ton carrier.

In order to carry more LAC's per ton, the Cimatars can not have more volume than the shrikes, and probably are about 60% the size of manticor LAC's. IMO they are probably also proportianally thinner. My best guess is that the cimitar is 14M wide, 14M high, and 84M long.

Weird Harold wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:You're a newly freed sector capitol system with a defense agreement with Manticore and plenty of resources to build not only ships, but a shipyard to take care of this neck of the woods. Oh, and by the way, since you've got access to nearly 1st line GA tech, might as well get into the military ship building game full time, protect ourselves, and sell good ships to others...

Whatchyagonna build and whoyagonna sell to?

That whoyagonna sell to is the problem. Since the League only has "sector capitols" in OFS and the verge, there's not going to be a lot of neighbors who can afford a navy.

How your defense agreement with Manticore is written is going to limit what tech you can sell without Manticoran permission. That's going to affect "whatchagonnabuild" to a large extent.

To start small, I'm going to build 282/Shrike A class LACs with spinal Grazers. A modular LAC bay suitable for mounting in a freighter's cargo bay would be included in the package. The LAC bay could also be mounted in a fort or space station for local defense.

I'm probably going to make a LAC/DD sized Dual-Drive missile. Individually, the drives are going to be short ranged, but with a ballistic segment, range would be nearly unlimited. My LACs are probably going to be bigger than Manticoran 282/Shrike-A types, to accommodate the DDMs, but not as big as Torch's Frigates.

I might build Nat Turner class frigates if I can get a license and plans... With my LAC sized DDMs they would be formidable pirate hunters.

I'd build Roland sized Destroyers/light cruisers with flag decks and marine quarters for a platoon. I'd use a slightly larger version of my LAC-DDM instead of the spinal mounts forced by MK-16 fusion tech for a conventional broadside. They'd have 50%-100% of the salvo density of a Roland.

I'd build a Heavy Cruiser/Battle Cruiser modeled on SLN cruiser hulls. They'd have internal tubes for a DDM variant and heavy anti-missile defenses (CM, PDLC, and decoys.) I'd reduce Crew size over SLN and offer customized command decks to suit the customer's preferences. Flag accommodations would be limited or the space turned over to expand Marine quarters.

I'd (eventually) build a BC(P) with a Keyhole I style relay drones. (actual KH-I if Manticore permits.) It might even be a BC(LP) with Battleship or near-DN size. It would be configured to use RMN flat-pack pod variants with capitol-grade capacitor DDMs. Flag deck and Marine quarters suitable for squadron/fleet level command. (suitable for a small navy flagship.) I'd address the perceived problems of vulnerability by using pod exits not constricted by the hammerhead, and re-position Keyhole bays for thicker armor on the sides.

The core of my arms business would be Havenite style system defense missiles, pods, adapted for command ship control or Moriarity level C3 modules, and LACs/LAC bay modules.

ETA:
As each larger ship/missile was added to the catalogue, I'd equip my own Navy with them first and give each design at least a year's operational test before offering them for sale.

Since Manticore can't build LAC/DD sized DDM's you can't either.

I like the Idea of the roland, but would build two versions. The first is like manticores, with a flag deck, the second would have the flag deck removed to make space for a platoon of marines.

Annachie wrote:How abut a small LAC carrier, but using something similar to the RoH LAC's with their reduced enviomental system.

Basically a LAC with a 2 week envirocapacity that gets dropped by the carrier to do 1 week patrols.
The carrier then moves on to the next pickup/drop off.
Pre arranging a pickup time and location.

The LAC then pootles along under stealth on it's patrol.

Meanwhile the carrier refreshes the LAC's stores and the crew spend a week out of the LAC.

Pro's, don't have to wait while the LAC heads out to it's patrol station, more importantly using up it's limited enviro. Always have one on station due to hot swapping the LAC.
No, or little, predictable time for the LAC to turn and head in system, or to catch the replacemen outbound.

Cons. An awful lot of trouble to keep LAC's on station on remote parols.

But given we are using the lower life capacity RoH type LAC's it might be worth selling as a package.

And is likely doable without access to 1st line GA tech.

Sell to any of the recently 'liberated' solarian worlds for system/belt patrol.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

If I were going "small LAC carrier" which I kind of like, I think I'd assume that the GA would let me at least have something akin to the Shrike's, with the extended patrolling time, etc. That would give the LAC carrier the ability to transport the LACS between multiple nearby systems, which would be important for "sector safekeeping", if you catch my drift. The RoH LACs are just too short legged. Of course, I might also think about transporting LAC platforms and fire control systems to my other systems also. A handful of Shrike's, etc. plus a few fixed defense pod launchers from the LAC platforms (maybe 10 pods a piece?) could make a hell of a dent in any up-to-multiple CA raiding forces that came my way.

Hmm. That could be an interesting "factory ship" to build, yes? Build the factory ship which goes off to planet X, the small LAC carrier transports the initial set in, and then it's simple resupply. Thoughts?

By the way. I was implying the Meyers system in the Madras sector when I said "recently freed sector capitol". Not any sector... At the end of Shadow of Freedom, Meyers has an amount of 10th Fleet nearby to keep the SLN from getting too uppity, so this is down the road a small stretch into the "okay we're on our feet and rolling so we can let the RMN / GA ships loose to go play whack a mole elsewhere. Meanwhile, we're following the Grayson model and becoming "fortress Meyers" for the sector, with the House of Thomas likely taking over for Verrochio, Hongbo, and that section of the OFS/FF who have recently had a really lousy day.

Don't know if that changes the discussion at all, but anyway...