US Presidential Candidates

gcomeau wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
We have to stop agreeing. I might have to change my opinion of some progressives.

I would vote for Johnson if I thought he has a chance of winning. I don't. Its either Trump or Hillary and I simply cannot act in a way that facilitates her being elected President. I just can't.

Don't worry, I'm going to disagree with you now.


That "I can't let the other party win an election so I have to vote for mine no matter what" dynamic is what traps the US in this two party Sophie's choice.


I think a Trump presidency will be a freaking disaster. Clinton would be horrible but over a 4 year span she would do far less damage than Trump.


But that's four years.


The Democratic party continuing it's slide into ever greater levels of corruption does less damage over the four year time horizon but much greater damage over the next 30 to 40 years. And the bottom line is a long as people keep buying the "but you have to vote for whoever we put up because look at who the OTHER GUYS put up!" they're never ever ever going to reform. and that "look at the other guys" argument is always there. Every election. It's never going away.


So anyone asks me? I tell them vote Green party. Send the message your vote can't just be taken for granted because the Democrats have set themselves as the only "left" game in town even when they no longer even vaguely resemble the left on economic policy. And if enough people do it the message might even get through. Pretty much the only hope there is for reform. Because they're sure as hell not going to get their act together in response to being *rewarded* for putting up unacceptable candidates with everyone's votes. Nobody says "hey we won, boy we better rethink our positions now".


The wording of that argument may be slightly different when applied to the GOP, but the principle is identical.


(Do I think the Green Party has even a *remote* chance of winning? Nope. None. But the point isn't to get them a win, it's to get them enough support that they're a threat to the Democratic party's left flank and the prospect of losing enough votes to the Greens to tip elections scares them into reform)

HB of CJ wrote:Who else is there?

PeterZ wrote:I told you I would vote Sanders over Clinton. Its not about party. Voting for Trump is as much a pox on Republicans as voting Sanders.

I cannot vote for someone that can truly institutionalize corruption in out country. I would rather vote for a schmuck that may just let the press regain some of their investigative skills. Perhaps they will grow more honest with that practice.

Annachie wrote:Voting Trump justifies the pox that the GOP is bringing on itself.

What you guys need is paper ballots that get filled out with pencil.

Hard to draw a cock and balls on an electronic ballot

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But in a potentially destabilising move for the Democratic party, and an exciting one for Sanders’ supporters, the Green party candidate said she was willing to stand aside for Sanders.

“I’ve invited Bernie to sit down explore collaboration – everything is on the table,” she said. “If he saw that you can’t have a revolutionary campaign in a counter-revolutionary party, he’d be welcomed to the Green party. He could lead the ticket and build a political movement,” she said.

aairfccha wrote:Voting for a third party might get a little more interesting this time.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/08/jill-stein-bernie-sanders-green-party

But in a potentially destabilising move for the Democratic party, and an exciting one for Sanders’ supporters, the Green party candidate said she was willing to stand aside for Sanders.

“I’ve invited Bernie to sit down explore collaboration – everything is on the table,” she said. “If he saw that you can’t have a revolutionary campaign in a counter-revolutionary party, he’d be welcomed to the Green party. He could lead the ticket and build a political movement,” she said.