Last use for SL SD captured

I know this topic is about SLN SDs but I wonder if anybody has put a thought into making use of all the other ships that have been captured?

Whilst they are not up to Havenite let alone Manticoran or Grayson standards they would be as good as anything many of the smaller star nations use & they would be superior to most pirates. I am especially thinking of nations like the Kingdom of Meyers & others that the GA liberate from SL thrall. I know the RMN are providing security at the moment but anything that can be down to encourage Meyers & similar systems to provide for their own security can only be beneficial for both sides. For one thing it would reduce the pressure on the RMN & for another it would be a way of showing to these new star nations that they are not merely swapping one overlord for another. They would also be seen as fellow star nations; not necessarily equal but nevertheless still sovereign.

Thoughts anyone?

P.S. I can actually think of one use for the captured SLN SDs. The GA knows that there is a wormhole in the Verdant Vista System & with what they are learning about the Mesan Alignment some of them should consider the possibility that it is not, as Manpower led everybody to believe, unexplored. In that case a quick way of reinforcing it would be to sail some, if not all, the SDs under minimal passage crews to Torch & position them near to the wormhole. Then if they could be linked together by remote control they could be minimally manned whilst they guard the wormhole. I know that this is not as efficient or as effective as a screen of proper forts but it could be done relatively quickly, especially as GA industrial production is tied up in more immediate priorities. Then, when the capacity is available they could be replaced by a Mycroft system similar to the being deployed around Beowulf.

This is NOT a long term solution, just a quick fix using what are basically expendable units that happen to be available.

--snipping--

Rincewind wrote:I know this topic is about SLN SDs but I wonder if anybody has put a thought into making use of all the other ships that have been captured?

I can actually think of one use for the captured SLN SDs. The GA knows that there is a wormhole in the Verdant Vista System & with what they are learning about the Mesan Alignment some of them should consider the possibility that it is not, as Manpower led everybody to believe, unexplored. In that case a quick way of reinforcing it would be to sail some, if not all, the SDs under minimal passage crews to Torch & position them near to the wormhole. Then if they could be linked together by remote control they could be minimally manned whilst they guard the wormhole. I know that this is not as efficient or as effective as a screen of proper forts but it could be done relatively quickly, especially as GA industrial production is tied up in more immediate priorities. Then, when the capacity is available they could be replaced by a Mycroft system similar to the being deployed around Beowulf.

This is NOT a long term solution, just a quick fix using what are basically expendable units that happen to be available.

Welcome to one of the older more despised threads -- and I am guilty of contributing to it. Wiser "Honorverse" heads point out that keeping ONE solarian SD crewed up to fighting standards -- with too short ranged missiles and not enough anti-missile defenses-- makes little sense when you can use the same weight of metal on state of the art craft. Big problem also being no yards to upgrade them with, and Manticoran's shipbuilding staff just disappeared in Oyster Bay/the Yawata strike. Even the smaller captured SLN hulls share this same "manning problem".

That s why Torch is aligning with Maya and Erewhon with Haven's GA tech as an extra reserve if needed -- the ships coming out of Carlucci's yards can fight better with fewer crew members as demonstrated in Torch of Freedom's battle sequences.

As you noted and sort of as a whole group we finally arrived at that Verge usage starting with the newly freed "Meyers system" and likely eventually other freed Verge sectors to refurb over a longer period of time, eventually freeing the current protective RMN defensive forces the ability go elsewhere.

Rincewind wrote:I know this topic is about SLN SDs but I wonder if anybody has put a thought into making use of all the other ships that have been captured?

Whilst they are not up to Havenite let alone Manticoran or Grayson standards they would be as good as anything many of the smaller star nations use & they would be superior to most pirates. I am especially thinking of nations like the Kingdom of Meyers & others that the GA liberate from SL thrall. I know the RMN are providing security at the moment but anything that can be down to encourage Meyers & similar systems to provide for their own security can only be beneficial for both sides. For one thing it would reduce the pressure on the RMN & for another it would be a way of showing to these new star nations that they are not merely swapping one overlord for another. They would also be seen as fellow star nations; not necessarily equal but nevertheless still sovereign.

Thoughts anyone?

P.S. I can actually think of one use for the captured SLN SDs. The GA knows that there is a wormhole in the Verdant Vista System & with what they are learning about the Mesan Alignment some of them should consider the possibility that it is not, as Manpower led everybody to believe, unexplored. In that case a quick way of reinforcing it would be to sail some, if not all, the SDs under minimal passage crews to Torch & position them near to the wormhole. Then if they could be linked together by remote control they could be minimally manned whilst they guard the wormhole. I know that this is not as efficient or as effective as a screen of proper forts but it could be done relatively quickly, especially as GA industrial production is tied up in more immediate priorities. Then, when the capacity is available they could be replaced by a Mycroft system similar to the being deployed around Beowulf.

This is NOT a long term solution, just a quick fix using what are basically expendable units that happen to be available.

Yes.

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping--

Rincewind wrote:I know this topic is about SLN SDs but I wonder if anybody has put a thought into making use of all the other ships that have been captured?

I can actually think of one use for the captured SLN SDs. The GA knows that there is a wormhole in the Verdant Vista System & with what they are learning about the Mesan Alignment some of them should consider the possibility that it is not, as Manpower led everybody to believe, unexplored. In that case a quick way of reinforcing it would be to sail some, if not all, the SDs under minimal passage crews to Torch & position them near to the wormhole. Then if they could be linked together by remote control they could be minimally manned whilst they guard the wormhole. I know that this is not as efficient or as effective as a screen of proper forts but it could be done relatively quickly, especially as GA industrial production is tied up in more immediate priorities. Then, when the capacity is available they could be replaced by a Mycroft system similar to the being deployed around Beowulf.

This is NOT a long term solution, just a quick fix using what are basically expendable units that happen to be available.

Welcome to one of the older more despised threads -- and I am guilty of contributing to it. Wiser "Honorverse" heads point out that keeping ONE solarian SD crewed up to fighting standards -- with too short ranged missiles and not enough anti-missile defenses-- makes little sense when you can use the same weight of metal on state of the art craft. Big problem also being no yards to upgrade them with, and Manticoran's shipbuilding staff just disappeared in Oyster Bay/the Yawata strike. Even the smaller captured SLN hulls share this same "manning problem".

That s why Torch is aligning with Maya and Erewhon with Haven's GA tech as an extra reserve if needed -- the ships coming out of Carlucci's yards can fight better with fewer crew members as demonstrated in Torch of Freedom's battle sequences.

As you noted and sort of as a whole group we finally arrived at that Verge usage starting with the newly freed "Meyers system" and likely eventually other freed Verge sectors to refurb over a longer period of time, eventually freeing the current protective RMN defensive forces the ability go elsewhere.

Yep, I knew I'd get this kind of reaction but I thought I'd put my two pennorth in just for the hell of it.

P.S. And you know you're in trouble when Lord Skimper starts agreeing with you!

Rincewind wrote:P.S. I can actually think of one use for the captured SLN SDs. The GA knows that there is a wormhole in the Verdant Vista System & with what they are learning about the Mesan Alignment some of them should consider the possibility that it is not, as Manpower led everybody to believe, unexplored. In that case a quick way of reinforcing it would be to sail some, if not all, the SDs under minimal passage crews to Torch & position them near to the wormhole. Then if they could be linked together by remote control they could be minimally manned whilst they guard the wormhole. I know that this is not as efficient or as effective as a screen of proper forts but it could be done relatively quickly, especially as GA industrial production is tied up in more immediate priorities. Then, when the capacity is available they could be replaced by a Mycroft system similar to the being deployed around Beowulf.

This is NOT a long term solution, just a quick fix using what are basically expendable units that happen to be available.

Thr thing is, people emerging from the wormhole are do vulnerable that it would be both cheaper and at least as effective to give Torch a handful of pods and let them detach a frigate or one of their new DDs to provide fire control. It wouldn't matter much if those were Mantie pod (Mk16, Mk23, or the old Mk41) or Havenite pods, or Erewhon/Meyers ERM Mk17 pods. Any of those would be capable of shredding any hostile transit that an undermanned ex-SLN SD (with its anemic firing rates) could handle.
And providing a small fairly modern combatant to act as fire control would divert a hell of s lot less of Torch's very limited pool of trained naval personnel than trying to provide even minimal manning to a obsolete hulk of an SD. (Plus is the more likely scenario of someone jumping the terminus from hyper to open up the way the more modern ship, with even a handful of pods, has a better chance of landing some significant hits and maybe even surviving to run away. The undermanned SD can't really hope to to either except is the random event that a small attack managed to land within its energy range)

The only real use for them, besides target practice or salvage, is handing them over to Sollie sysyems that leave the league and actually have the capability of maintaining them.
Even then I'm not sure.

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Annachie wrote:The only real use for them, besides target practice or salvage, is handing them over to Sollie sysyems that leave the league and actually have the capability of maintaining them.
Even then I'm not sure.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Actually this, in part, is what I was proposing for the other ships they have captured. Remember, in addition to the wallers they have all the Battlecruisers, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, destroyers & support ships. They also should have a sizeable number of missiles & spare parts to keep them running for some time.

Whilst they would be ineffective against GA units they should be effective against the types of units the SLN may send against them.

Rincewind wrote:

Annachie wrote:The only real use for them, besides target practice or salvage, is handing them over to Sollie sysyems that leave the league and actually have the capability of maintaining them.
Even then I'm not sure.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Actually this, in part, is what I was proposing for the other ships they have captured. Remember, in addition to the wallers they have all the Battlecruisers, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, destroyers & support ships. They also should have a sizeable number of missiles & spare parts to keep them running for some time.

Whilst they would be ineffective against GA units they should be effective against the types of units the SLN may send against them.

http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/si ... gton/106/1

Which isn't that many, actually. Crandall and Filareta had about 139 subwallers between them. The 1920pd fleet strength table had 626 ships in this category and another 427 in reserve(down from 1,312 total in 1905pd).

I would bet those ships in mothballs, which weren't considered fit for the second Haven war by the way, are superior to SLN hardware. It's hard not to assume that when SLN missile launcher reload times in 1920 are ~50% longer than the RMN and PRN's were in 1905...

Annachie wrote:The only real use for them, besides target practice or salvage, is handing them over to Sollie sysyems that leave the league and actually have the capability of maintaining them.
Even then I'm not sure.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Rincewind wrote:Actually this, in part, is what I was proposing for the other ships they have captured. Remember, in addition to the wallers they have all the Battlecruisers, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, destroyers & support ships. They also should have a sizeable number of missiles & spare parts to keep them running for some time.

Whilst they would be ineffective against GA units they should be effective against the types of units the SLN may send against them.

munroburton wrote:http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/si ... gton/106/1

Which isn't that many, actually. Crandall and Filareta had about 139 subwallers between them. The 1920pd fleet strength table had 626 ships in this category and another 427 in reserve(down from 1,312 total in 1905pd).

I would bet those ships in mothballs, which weren't considered fit for the second Haven war by the way, are superior to SLN hardware. It's hard not to assume that when SLN missile launcher reload times in 1920 are ~50% longer than the RMN and PRN's were in 1905...

But in that case would you really want to supply a bunch of ships that, even if they have been mothballed by the Manties would still have the upgraded compensators, FTL Comms & all those other little goodies to ex Solarian League Systems. I certainly would hesitate before doing that!

Do you want those systems to be ex or not?

The object of the exercise is _not_ to fill the galaxy with out-of-joint noses. It _is_ the intention to convert as many as possible into stable, self-sufficient [as much as any Honorverse system is, which appears to be approximately as much as nations on Earth now are truly self-sufficient] friends and allies. Which means, and I know this is a difficult concept for a lot of people, that _you_ become _their_ friend and ally. The last I checked, saying "You're totally untrustworthy. Keep your noses clean for the next 2-3 decades and we'll see about letting you further into the club." wasn't way up there on the list of "Demonstrations of Friendship".

And, quite frankly, it doesn't really matter all that much anyway, now. All those 'cats are out of their bags. Now that Haven has duplicated all this independently you're going to be seeing the tech move into the civilian sector pretty quickly.

Rincewind wrote:
But in that case would you really want to supply a bunch of ships that, even if they have been mothballed by the Manties would still have the upgraded compensators, FTL Comms & all those other little goodies to ex Solarian League Systems. I certainly would hesitate before doing that!