Lord Skimper wrote:First off The Nike BCL class has Keyhole I not Keyhole II, the notation in HoS is wrong. (Yes they made a mistake). This however is not a problem as The Mk16 doesn't use Apollo. It could use Apollo, Apollo works just as well with the Mk16 as it does with the Mk23 it just isn't needed at shorter ranges typical of the Mk16. Making a DDM Apollo would allow for making a slightly smaller Apollo missile, still it will be huge compared to the Mk16. Better would be making a more persistent Ghost Rider Apollo Platform. This can be launched from all Standard Ghost rider launch bays. Slower but it can go out sooner, which ghost rider already does, and being stealthy can sit in range and provide not only instant FTL comms but Apollo coordination. EW and Penaids etc... Then firing Mk16's at these controlled areas and the ships are toast. Of course newer Nikes would need Keyhole II fitted. Yet still The Nike would be less than the Bellerophon properly refitted.
You appear to have missed just about everything I said, Skimper. The Nike as presently configured is perfectly fine in a universal MDM environment. 3 or more stage MDMs are likely to be the preserve of pods, as they're rather big, and anything below the wall would have trouble fitting them in broadside mounts.
The Nike doesn't loose utility until everybody has Apollo or roughly equivalent capability for their full up MDMs. However, as I thought I said clearly, by the time Apollo is spread very far, Manticore and the GA will have miniaturized Apollo further - likely far enough that you can squeeze in all the necessary bits into something the same size as a Mark-16 DDM, although perhaps only a receiver, not an FTL transmitter, and use FTL capable recon drones instead, and Keyholes will have gotten more advanced as well. For that matter, it's probable that Nikes and other sub-wall Keyhole capable ships will get a form of Keyhole 2 to use with Apollo-capable Mark 23 pods even before then.
Silesian prejudice aside, Silesian uptake of refit ships even refit ships using Mk16 Wareheaded, Capacitor powered ERM Missiles. Just change the feed mechanism from the similar sized with a smaller than Mk16 missile which is only slightly larger than the standard missile that fits the space... Add in Viper missiles in the CM feeds and suddenly the Power of the Ship is multiplied. The fusion bottle doesn't power the 'bomb' for the warhead. That is a separate bomb in the warhead. Adding a Bellerophon to each Silesian system as a new Flagship for the system, as these systems join the SEM leaving protectorate labelling behind. This also introduces each such system to various upgraded Manty GA tech. Worrying about spies in Silesia giving this tech to the SL is just more Anti Silesian Prejudice. If anyone is going to feed the SL with tech information it will be a former Peep or Talbot Cluster League Sympathisers.
Vipers are bigger than standard CMs.
I'm less worried about Solly spies in Silesia than I am the contacts with slavers and pirates, and the endemic corruption throughout the region, that might allow the MAlign, probably via proxy, to get information.
The Talbott Quadrant doesn't really have League Sympathizers, per se, and even those opposed to joining Manticore dislike the League. One might be worried about New Tuscany's intelligence penetration into the Quadrant and them feeding information elsewhere, but they are unlikely to want to further provoke Manticore. Nordbrandt? She has no love for Manticore, but she has less for the League and Mesa, and likely won't have the kind of intelligence penetration and access to get at all the kinds of things the MAlign might want.
No need to worry about crew levels, plenty of crew potentials exist on each of the Silesian systems. One three planet system had five hundred SD yet you don't think a Silesian system can crew one Dreadnaught. They are of course backward Neobarbs according to some, gee who does that sound like?
Nobody says that Silesia doesn't have the bodies. However, they aren't trained on Manticoran equipment, and any ships the RMN stations in a system are going to be RMN ships, with RMN crews. Or is it IMN now?
How hard is it to upgrade a ship? Apparently impossible unless you are a Religious Truly deserving of the Neobarb label system like Grayson used to be. Then it is no problem. But using a Politically failed modern system, impossible. Some people need to look in the Neobarb mirror.
Grayson had a whole lot of help from Manticore. Direct tech transfers, both data and hardware, trained and qualified personnel, etc. And Grayson had years of it. Plus, a disproportionately large number of space-trained workers for its population.
And it's also important to note that the technology differences were significantly smaller.
Changing missile designs is also impossible for the Manties. Missile doesn't fit, make it a bit smaller. Works for the League. Somehow impossible for Manticore. Incomprehensible it is like talking to a Neobarb. Funny thing they say the same thing. Until they are proven wrong. Then suddenly the whole crazy idea is great.
I'm quite confident that I said a capacitor missile utilizing the latest Manticoran missile technologies could be designed to fit the launchers for any legacy ship, but it probably wouldn't be quite as easy as saying it.
Let's see, Manticore lacks crews, where are they going to get them. Of course they aren't so much as lacking crew as replacement crew for those killed in battle. The battle might be over but ... Who has the most modern crews of all the newly SEM potential systems. Could it be Silesia? What about the 300 Peep systems not SEM but GA with full tech disclosure. They were almost as advanced as the Silesian systems. Or Talbot, a Backward set of RIM systems.
Could Silesia crew the Bellerophon? Of course they can.
Manticore is going to be expanding the RMN, no question about it. But, for the moment, Manticore has the opportunity to significantly expand its training programs before it has any new ships finish building.
Refitting a Bellerophon to modern Manticoran standards is not going to be a quick process, even if a yard has the capacity to do so. It would be faster, cheaper, and more efficient for Manticore to design and build a new class of ships to serve whatever role you want to refit the Bellerophons to have. And that does take into account the need for Manticore to rebuild its infrastructure.
For that matter, I fully expect that the RMN started thinking about how it was going to picket and defend Manticoran Silesia in the long term shortly after the concept of splitting Silesia with the Andermani was raised. It wouldn't have been a top priority, but work would have been done.
Why exactly do you think Manticore should be breaking out and refitting Bellerophons to modern standards for Manticoran Silesia? What purpose would these ships have?
