Genetic superhumans as sleeper agents

JohnRoth wrote:Textev please.

Just one small bit of what is scattered throughout the series:

Crown of Slaves
Chapter Thirteen wrote:She raised her hand and glanced down at it. The faint tracing of the veins could be seen under the ivory skin. "Just to finish the irony, on Ndebele—not so much on Zulu—the weak sunlight selected for melanin deficiency. Bantus paler than Vikings, no less! But it did produce a genetic variant that's at the edge of current human physical performance. Big deal. Just made us prime meat for the OFS grinder, that's all."

The whole issue of superiority depends on the situation. Scrags have "issues", shall we say, in many situations.

kzt wrote:The whole issue of superiority depends on the situation. Scrags have "issues", shall we say, in many situations.

Exactly.

Not just Scrags, but all of the Genies and otherwise enhanced humans. Everyone has weaknesses, prejudices, and blind-spots.

The MAlign's main fallacy is that they (say they) believe everything can be programmed in genetics. But they still have to resort to "training" (aka conditioning) for their slave lines.

We're told that O'Hanrahan is WAY up the lines -- and while she in theory knows enough that the Onion is open to her [my reading o some textev but I don't remember which book], she's also sort of an adrenaline junkie of the news reporter type, and isn't nearly tame, so to say. Way too many ethics, etc.

Then we have the MacBrydes. So deep inside the onion that they were both part of the master plan... until they decided not to be. We're not sure about Zachariah's outcome yet, but you can bet his loyalty to the old "Mesan ALignment" order pretty much went the way of the dodo bird by the time he killed the Gaul.

Trouble with humans -- even those who start to approach what we would now call "superhuman" status, AKA Honor, Palane, etc. is that intelligence may raise conscientousness and conscience instead of putting it to work for the Fearless Leader's master plan.

So if you're Fearless Leader do you want those folks out wandering the starways, or nearby where a Kyridoros clone can take them out as soon as is necessary?

Weird Harold wrote:
There is a difference between better than "normals" and "as superior as we think we are." Other genetic lines are also superior to "normals" -- including Scrags -- and some, like the Mfecane worlds are arguably superior to anything the MAlign has produced.

JohnRoth wrote:Textev please.

Weird Harold wrote:Just one small bit of what is scattered throughout the series:

Crown of Slaves
Chapter Thirteen wrote:She raised her hand and glanced down at it. The faint tracing of the veins could be seen under the ivory skin. "Just to finish the irony, on Ndebele—not so much on Zulu—the weak sunlight selected for melanin deficiency. Bantus paler than Vikings, no less! But it did produce a genetic variant that's at the edge of current human physical performance. Big deal. Just made us prime meat for the OFS grinder, that's all."

I restored your comment that I was asking for text evidence for so it's easier to see that you're not replying to my query.

This is not a comparison of the Mefecane variant to the Mesan Alphas. To my knowledge, that comparison does not exist.

That's what I was asking for text evidence for.

SharkHunter wrote:We're told that O'Hanrahan is WAY up the lines -- and while she in theory knows enough that the Onion is open to her [my reading o some textev but I don't remember which book], she's also sort of an adrenaline junkie of the news reporter type, and isn't nearly tame, so to say. Way too many ethics, etc.

Then we have the MacBrydes. So deep inside the onion that they were both part of the master plan... until they decided not to be. We're not sure about Zachariah's outcome yet, but you can bet his loyalty to the old "Mesan ALignment" order pretty much went the way of the dodo bird by the time he killed the Gaul.

Trouble with humans -- even those who start to approach what we would now call "superhuman" status, AKA Honor, Palane, etc. is that intelligence may raise conscientousness and conscience instead of putting it to work for the Fearless Leader's master plan.

So if you're Fearless Leader do you want those folks out wandering the starways, or nearby where a Kyridoros clone can take them out as soon as is necessary?

A couple of points here: the people in the inner layers of the Onion are tested to find out if they're going to be loyal, and they never find out about it if they fail the tests.

Second, we know of a number of inner Onion members who are wandering the spaceways: Bardesano and Anisimnova come to mind. Jack McBryde had retired from that, if memory serves correctly.

SharkHunter wrote:Trouble with humans -- even those who start to approach what we would now call "superhuman" status, AKA Honor, Palane, etc. is that intelligence may raise conscientousness and conscience instead of putting it to work for the Fearless Leader's master plan.

You need to look more deeply at Totalitarian movements. Smart people join them eagerly, then defend their choices to the bitter end. There were no shortages of really bright people supporting Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Hitler. Look at who in the US was a leftist or communist during the 30-50s, they were often considered leading intellectuals. It was no secret that there was mass murder going on in Russia, the intellectuals lying about it in the NY Times etc were committed communists.

And if you want to know who the reporter is, look at Walter Duranty. Who got a Pulitzer prize for his explaining away the millions of murders by Lenin and Stalin and how the Russian people just loved tyranny.

JohnRoth wrote:This is not a comparison of the Mefecane variant to the Mesan Alphas. To my knowledge, that comparison does not exist.

If you're looking for "this variant is superior to MAlign Star Lines" that sort of explicit comparison does not exist. It is necessary to read between the lines and colate a dozen different hints and implications.

kzt wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Trouble with humans -- even those who start to approach what we would now call "superhuman" status, AKA Honor, Palane, etc. is that intelligence may raise conscientousness and conscience instead of putting it to work for the Fearless Leader's master plan.

You need to look more deeply at Totalitarian movements. Smart people join them eagerly, then defend their choices to the bitter end. There were no shortages of really bright people supporting Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Hitler. Look at who in the US was a leftist or communist during the 30-50s, they were often considered leading intellectuals. It was no secret that there was mass murder going on in Russia, the intellectuals lying about it in the NY Times etc were committed communists.

And if you want to know who the reporter is, look at Walter Duranty. Who got a Pulitzer prize for his explaining away the millions of murders by Lenin and Stalin and how the Russian people just loved tyranny.

Absolutely True but not actually what is being argued here. The issue argued here is the 100% (until Jack McBride) avoidance of ANYONE having second thoughts about thier task. Even the KGB had defectors and so do the North Korean elites. 0% defectors is the issue we find unrealistic.

Silverwall wrote:Absolutely True but not actually what is being argued here. The issue argued here is the 100% (until Jack McBride) avoidance of ANYONE having second thoughts about thier task. Even the KGB had defectors and so do the North Korean elites. 0% defectors is the issue we find unrealistic.

There have been three. One said "let me tell you what is really going on" arrrg gasp thump.