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| Energy torpedoes against spider drive ships? | |
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by that_other_dude
» Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:43 pm
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that_other_dude
Posts: 2
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So hi all. This would be me joining the forum because this thought just occurred to me.
Do spider drive ships have sidewalls? And if they do not, then wouldn't they be vulnerable to energy torpedoes? Personally, I think it could be interesting to see a return to the tech outlined in the first book of the series. Might provide a bit of counterpoint to how far the tech has come. |
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by Jonathan_S
» Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:20 pm
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Jonathan_S
Posts: 8792
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Welcome to the forum, have a virtual beverage of your choice. Hope you stick around and continue to contribute. Whether spider drive ships have sidewalls is a debated question. We know normal sidewalls require a wedge to tie into and the spider drive hull form appears incompatible with a wedge even if you wanted to try and shoehorn in a second drive type. So those seem to be out. But there are also bubble sidewalls; there's no known reason a spider ship couldn't mount those. However RFC (sorry, that's Davif Weber, his forum name here is runsforcelery and get abbreviated RFC) has said that a spider drive cannot operate through a bubble sidewall. That's not the same thing as saying they don't mount one; just that it appears they'd have to stop maneuvering while they had it up. Finally some people have wondered if the buckler wall could be deployed without a wedge; and if so whether a spider ship might adapt it to project multiple buckets along its flanks (personally I feel there are enough hints that the bucket is still linked somehow to wedge and impeller nodes that that's not poosible) Ok so let's assume that they can't use a wedge. The yes energy torps would be effective. But are they worth moubting? We don't seem to be given a max range fo the energy torpedo, but I'd be shocked if it was more than the 400,000ish km of beam weapon range. That's insanely short ranged compared to missiles. And while the energy torp is more destructive than a graser against an unprotected target it would be useless should the ship ever end up fighting a conventional enemy. Also without wedge or sidewall you appear to be able to use an even more destructive weapon against a spider ship once you locate it; physical impact of the wedge of a missile. And unlike the energy torp that's just a different targeting setting on a weapon that you're already carrying. So despite the symmetry of the energy torp reemergening in the final books as an anti-spider weapon I tend to doubt we'll see it. Edit: good grief that turned into a real wall of text; hope that doesn't discourage you or scare you off. |
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| Re: Energy torpedoes against spider drive ships? | |
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by kzt
» Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:29 pm
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kzt
Posts: 11360
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By the time you are in range for energy torps you have been in effective graser range for several hundred thousands kms. This assumes you can somehow detect the ship, which is not at all easy. However, your ship is very easy for the spider to detect. So what I think will happen is that a you close in to attack this vague target an SD class graser blows your ship apart.
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| Re: Energy torpedoes against spider drive ships? | |
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by Theemile
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:30 am
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Theemile
Posts: 5241
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Welcome to the forum.
In addition to the rest mentioned, you cannot mount a working warship class energy torpedo emitter on a modern RMN LAC. They require a fusion reactor to bleed plasma off of, something the fission reactor on LACS cannot do. Also, the emitter itself is as larger or larger than standard shipborn drones, so it cannot be mounted on drones. As you may be a leader to tell, this subject has come up several times before. ******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships." |
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by darrell
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 am
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darrell
Posts: 1390
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The only thing I could find about sidewalls and the spider drive comes from "Mission of Honor" aboard a spider-drive warship and that there was no wedge floor and roof for a side wall to stitch together. And just to make matters even more interesting, the spider drive could not be used through a spherical sidewall like the ones fortresses generated. There is no traditional or spherical sidewall for the spider drive ship. They should be able to generate a buckler sidewall like the RMN can. IMO there is a remote chance that they might be able to generate a "cylinder" or "triangular" sidewall, with the bow and stern open, but that is more problomatic. <><><><><><><><><><><><>
Logic: an organized way to go wrong, with confidence. |
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by Lord Skimper
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:49 am
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Lord Skimper
Posts: 1736
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Welcome to the extension of the Books, from the sound of it the energy torpedo would be effective but even better and with ten times the range and ten times the numbers would be a Counter Missile or Viper missile. I've always wondered what the use of a larger spider drive ship is, because it is hard to see until it fires then it is dead. Of course if a large spider drive ship can enter and exit hyperspace it likely has a wedge of A nodes anyways?
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Just don't ask what is in the protein bars. |
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by darrell
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:16 am
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darrell
Posts: 1390
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You appear to be confusing the classes. The ghosts are tiny and unarmed. They are designed as scouts, Translate in, spend a few months looking around, when the attack fleet arrives they have detailed intelegence on what they find. The sharks are small: "Quote Mission Of Honor" For that matter, the Sharks themselves had never been supposed to be deployed “operationally.” "Quote Mission Of Honor" “If they ask you that, you admit the Sharks were originally intended primarily as prototypes and training vessels, and you don’t pretend we have more of them than we do,” The lenny detweilers are HUGE, some say bigger than forts, and they have lots and lots and lots of armor, and are designed to stand up in combat. Whether that happens in reality or not is another thing, though. <><><><><><><><><><><><>
Logic: an organized way to go wrong, with confidence. |
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| Re: Energy torpedoes against spider drive ships? | |
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by kzt
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:33 am
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kzt
Posts: 11360
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The Sharks are small only in comparison to the LD. Sharks were 4 million tons, but were to small to properly mount the main armament of an LD. So the LD class is Big. Given that the main limiting factor for maximum warship size is the compensator, and spiders have no compensator, they may well be very damn big indeed. Like 15 to 30 million tons, but David has not given much other noting than the partially built LD class ships were significantly bigger than the Sharks.
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| Re: Energy torpedoes against spider drive ships? | |
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by Silverwall
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:01 am
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Silverwall
Posts: 388
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I see no use for energy torps against spider ships. If you are close enough for the torps then you can probably get as good results by seeding your missile salvos with good old fashoned contact nukes. No matter how tough the armour a contact nuke is really going to ruin the spider ships day.
Of course finding the spiders in the first place is the challenge but once you know roughly where it is from it's fire you flood the proximity with recon drones and lacs and bombard it from exteme range. Nothing we have seen in regards the graser torps suggest that they will be that effective against a sidewall. |
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by munroburton
» Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:40 am
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munroburton
Posts: 2375
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Skimper does have a point - the wedge of a CM or a missile would be as destructive to the spider ship as anything else. They can use training missiles instead of warshots. Missile wedges usually get overpowered by the ship's own impellers and go poof. |
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