long ranged CM

I wonder why they haven't tried pod-launched CMs?

We do know that as a last-ditch measure they can canister-launch counter missiles from the broadside missile launchers (I think I remember that from the battle of Hyacinth). So presumably there wouldn't be a substantial fire control issue with respect to launching a lot of CMs all at once.

I'd suspect that a standard-sized pod could carry 50-100 counter missiles.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:I wonder why they haven't tried pod-launched CMs?

We do know that as a last-ditch measure they can canister-launch counter missiles from the broadside missile launchers (I think I remember that from the battle of Hyacinth). So presumably there wouldn't be a substantial fire control issue with respect to launching a lot of CMs all at once.

I'd suspect that a standard-sized pod could carry 50-100 counter missiles.

It's control channels, not launchers that is the usual problem. I think only LACs in the fleet defense mode could use pods of CMs.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:I wonder why they haven't tried pod-launched CMs?

We do know that as a last-ditch measure they can canister-launch counter missiles from the broadside missile launchers (I think I remember that from the battle of Hyacinth). So presumably there wouldn't be a substantial fire control issue with respect to launching a lot of CMs all at once.

I'd suspect that a standard-sized pod could carry 50-100 counter missiles.

Cannister-launched CMs are for when too many of the CM tubes have been taken out, and there's a need to keep as many CMs outgoing as possible.

While pod-launched CMs are certainly possible, there aren't enough control channels for all of them (authorial fiat), as well as the control channels used for tube-launched CMs. BuNine has toyed with the idea of making something like that, but it was mostly just playing around with the idea, but not a serious one.

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:I wonder why they haven't tried pod-launched CMs?

We do know that as a last-ditch measure they can canister-launch counter missiles from the broadside missile launchers (I think I remember that from the battle of Hyacinth). So presumably there wouldn't be a substantial fire control issue with respect to launching a lot of CMs all at once.

I'd suspect that a standard-sized pod could carry 50-100 counter missiles.

RFC caboshed that idea long ago. From a logistics perspective, how would you integrate a Cm pod on the rails with mostly MDM's? Personally I see 4 or 6 exit rails but many more rails than this internally. Maybe RFC sees only 4 or 6 rails internally. This would explain why he caboshed it.

BUT: with the advent of the tractor IN a pod, I see no reason one could not just hold a couple of CM pods on the exterior of the ship to deal with alpha strikes.

As for the control channels argument. ALL of an Invictus's CM's can be handled by a single keyhole... It carries two of them.

MaxxQ wrote:

drinksmuchcoffee wrote:I wonder why they haven't tried pod-launched CMs?

SNIP
While pod-launched CMs are certainly possible, there aren't enough control channels for all of them (authorial fiat)

The bolded, italicized, red'd, is the real reason.

Don't get me started if one took a very basic approach...

Relax wrote:

MaxxQ wrote:SNIP
While pod-launched CMs are certainly possible, there aren't enough control channels for all of them (authorial fiat)

The bolded, italicized, red'd, is the real reason.

Don't get me started if one took a very basic approach...

I wrote that just for you.

You're welcome.

MaxxQ wrote:...(authorial fiat)...

That makes sense.

IIRC, at the Battle of Solon, at one point it was noted that the Invictus had the time to fire 13 salvos of CMs, but only enough fire control for 11 salvos.




Now, if I were an Honorverse warship designer, I'd design to have enough CM fire control at maximum rate after a sizeable amount of battle damage. CM fire control is as important as offensive fire control.
Apparently, they don't have enough CM fire control. That's down to Weber's authorial decisions. IIRC, the initial Invictus is a little more shooty and less defenses than later designs. So that's changing, presumably.

Kytheros wrote:IIRC, at the Battle of Solon, at one point it was noted that the Invictus had the time to fire 13 salvos of CMs, but only enough fire control for 11 salvos.




Now, if I were an Honorverse warship designer, I'd design to have enough CM fire control at maximum rate after a sizeable amount of battle damage. CM fire control is as important as offensive fire control.

75s/8s/salvo + (time lag at 3.5Mk/300,000km = 11s)/8 = 9 + 1 = 10 salvos can be inflight. Partials do not count in integers. Though in Author land... they appear to do so.

AAC: "They weren't restricted to the telemetry links physically mounted on their after hammerheads; they had sufficient links to control all of their counter-missiles aboard each Keyhole,".... "They still couldn't control eleven salvos . . . but they could control eight, "

Why they couldn't use a portion of the other keyhole... go figure.

Kytheros wrote:IIRC, at the Battle of Solon, at one point it was noted that the Invictus had the time to fire 13 salvos of CMs, but only enough fire control for 11 salvos.




Now, if I were an Honorverse warship designer, I'd design to have enough CM fire control at maximum rate after a sizeable amount of battle damage. CM fire control is as important as offensive fire control.
Apparently, they don't have enough CM fire control. That's down to Weber's authorial decisions. IIRC, the initial Invictus is a little more shooty and less defenses than later designs. So that's changing, presumably.

Actually it's they had time to fire 11 salvo, but could only control 8. That said, the ability to control those 8 is a vast increase over the number of CMs any previous design could control - so even the "more shooty" Invictus could throw,by far, the heaviest CM fire of anything in space (up to that point).

Remember that the quote goes on to say Haven (based on past expeience with RMN units, which should include the Harrington/Medusa class SD(P)s, expected the Invictus to fire 5 launches of around 20 missiles each (expected average across the fleet was 10, but given that the previous SD(P)s mounted 18 forward hammerhead CM tubes, while Invictus mounted 24 they're clearly the high side of the average). So 100ish missiles per SD(P).
What they got was something like 1500 per SD(P)! [8 salvos * 192 tubes; both broadsides + the forward chase tubes] So roughly 15 times the number of CMs any previous design could handle!! Thank you plot magic of Keyhole!


You can argue that they should have gone to 21x instead of 15x; that would let them control all 11 salvos. But it's hard to claim that fifteen times more control links than any previous design isn't already amazing.