Bellerophon

Louis R wrote:To be fair, he does sometimes inspire reasonable thoughts in others.

Joat42 wrote:It's amazing how skimper manages to get you all up in a tizzy with some stupid suggestion and then the thread just keep going and going like a zombie...

It's almost like his agenda for posting the stupid suggestions is to get this type of zombie-threads going..

Only because they're trying to explain how the crap he comes up with can't possibly work.

I'd like to know where he plans to build these. The only shipyard the Manties have any sort of control over (even a little, and not yet) would be Bolthole. Are you suggesting the Havenite Navy will build these instead of SD-Ps? I'd put money down that they'd snort, giggle, and then Say What?

MaxxQ wrote:quote="Louis R"]To be fair, he does sometimes inspire reasonable thoughts in others.

Joat42 wrote:It's amazing how skimper manages to get you all up in a tizzy with some stupid suggestion and then the thread just keep going and going like a zombie...

It's almost like his agenda for posting the stupid suggestions is to get this type of zombie-threads going..

Only because they're trying to explain how the crap he comes up with can't possibly work.[/quote]

A good answer to his blathering's in this case is like the RN in 1906 continuing to build Lord Nelson class Pre-Dreadnought Battleships after the commissioning of HMS Dreadnought.

saber964 wrote:A good answer to his blathering's in this case is like the RN in 1906 continuing to build Lord Nelson class Pre-Dreadnought Battleships after the commissioning of HMS Dreadnought.

He's a philosopher. Real life analogies mean nothing to him.

zuluwiz wrote:I'd like to know where he plans to build these. The only shipyard the Manties have any sort of control over (even a little, and not yet) would be Bolthole. Are you suggesting the Havenite Navy will build these instead of SD-Ps? I'd put money down that they'd snort, giggle, and then Say What?

Dispersed yards in Silesia.

Lord Skimper wrote:Dispersed yards in Silesia.

Skimper, could you please address the points raised against your design in the first reply in this thread?

And, given this post of yours, could you please explain where all the technical instructors and components for those ships are supposed to be coming from? You're talking about building completely new, cutting edge ships requiring all the bits and bobs the RMN has just lost during Oyster Bay to design, let alone build, and you want to have them built in silesian systems which have little to no experience in building military starships and definitely zero experience building modern wallers?

It sure appears from the cutaway drawings that Mk13 missiles are pretty much the same dimensions of the Mk16. Refitting to fire Mk16's shouldn't be such a big deal, from the missile tube impossible to cut through armour point of view. Internal refits will be gutted and replaced but then that is what a refit is.


Dispersed yards are built around parked ships. No big deal here.
Even Graysons could do this. As for people who think that the technical data no longer exists nor that the refineries or part making facilities where on the stations well we will just point out they don't know what a dispersed yard is.

Lord Skimper wrote:It sure appears from the cutaway drawings that Mk13 missiles are pretty much the same dimensions of the Mk16. Refitting to fire Mk16's shouldn't be such a big deal, from the missile tube impossible to cut through armour point of view. Internal refits will be gutted and replaced but then that is what a refit is.

Except we have text evidence that says that such an operation is neither simple nor cheap. I would also point out that your notional design somehow manages to pack in 40% more missiles and better armor than an Invictus while being 1.7 Mt lighter without explanation. One of those numbers is unattainable, which one is it?

Dispersed yards are built around parked ships. No big deal here.

Noone said dispersed yards were hard. Anyone with a working space-based infrastructure can build them. But it takes a lot more than that to actually make them useful, namely a support infrastructure building parts and refining materials and work crews capable of putting it all together, none of which Silesia can provide given what we know of them. It took the Graysons years to get to a point where they were able to launch SDs, and that was with a population base that included an abnormally high number of people trained to do work in space.

Even Graysons could do this. As for people who think that the technical data no longer exists nor that the refineries or part making facilities where on the stations well we will just point out they don't know what a dispersed yard is.

Come on. Dispersed yards do not build impeller nodes, fire control suites, launcher assemblies, fusion reactors, keyhole bays, keyhole platforms, computer systems, environmental systems, or any of the multitude of parts a combat vessel needs. They're just places to put all those assemblies into a ship-like shape and apply armor, and in case you haven't noticed, all those parts are not in large supply right now. Even if they were, they'd be better utilized building actually usable ships instead of Skimper realitybenders.

EDIT:

The big problem which you consistently ignore is that, in order to do this "refit", you would need to ferry all the mothballed ships to Silesia, send a bunch of instructors and quality control guys over to oversee the construction, and then organize ways and means of getting the parts manufactured, and ALL of that while the SEM has not regained the infrastructure that they had back when they helped bootstrap Grayson.

Lord Skimper wrote:It sure appears from the cutaway drawings that Mk13 missiles are pretty much the same dimensions of the Mk16. Refitting to fire Mk16's shouldn't be such a big deal, from the missile tube impossible to cut through armour point of view. Internal refits will be gutted and replaced but then that is what a refit is.


Dispersed yards are built around parked ships. No big deal here.
Even Graysons could do this. As for people who think that the technical data no longer exists nor that the refineries or part making facilities where on the stations well we will just point out they don't know what a dispersed yard is.

Okay.... I was stupid and actually read this post (bangs head on table). Skippy, the Mk-13 is capacitor-powered and the Mk-16 is fusion-powered. That means ripping the guts out of the power-up system and replacing it. It's not just a matter of "boring out the tubes" (facepalm - so much wrong with that ASSumption) so the missile will fit.

The Mk-16 is also longer, maybe not much longer, but long enough to require a rebuild of the magazines to fit them. They are made to tight tolerances, with not much more than a couple cm between the missile and the walls of the magazine. This, of course, means tearing apart the armor of the magazine, which may be thinner than hull armor, but is just as tough.

No one thinks the technical data doesn't exist. What you are missing (or purposely ignoring) is the fact that the tools to build the tools to build the tools to make the parts needed WERE ALSO DESTROYED!!!!!!111111oneoneone That means they have to start completely from scratch, building the machines/tools to put in the manufacturing plants that also have to be rebuilt from scratch. Dispersed yards can't do squat if they don't have the parts to assemble the ships.

Once all that's been built, why transport it all to Silesia when it's already there in Manticore? Silesia probably doesn't have the tech base to build the specialized machinery and tools for making such precise equipment such as nodes and whatever else is needed.

MaxxQ wrote: No one thinks the technical data doesn't exist. What you are missing (or purposely ignoring) is the fact that the tools to build the tools to build the tools to make the parts needed WERE ALSO DESTROYED!!!!!!111111oneoneone That means they have to start completely from scratch, building the machines/tools to put in the manufacturing plants that also have to be rebuilt from scratch. Dispersed yards can't do squat if they don't have the parts to assemble the ships.

Once all that's been built, why transport it all to Silesia when it's already there in Manticore? Silesia probably doesn't have the tech base to build the specialized machinery and tools for making such precise equipment such as nodes and whatever else is needed.

One thing that both Silesia and Talbot can do is build parts. The wouldn't be able to build the more technical parts such as computers or micro fusion bottles, but should be able to build more standard units like impeller nodes or factory machines.