long ranged CM

kzt wrote:And how come the first nuke that went off at BOM against Home fleet didn't blind the other 50,000 or so behind it in that salvo?

And that's something I already picked out a page ago. Missiles have very, VERY erratic application of their rad screens.

Triple Ripple and things like Zizka sometimes work, and that relies upon hundreds of megatons of nukes going off in a very short time space, and a small cluster of space that has lots of sensors looking intently in that direction.

But then big battles, like BoMa, and the missiles herped and derped right through the nuke explosions without a care that they should be blind.


I'm not saying they're plot armored missiles, but they're plot armored missiles.

Somtaaw wrote:I'm not saying they're plot armored missiles, but they're plot armored missiles.

darrell wrote:I cant't remember a time that a shipkiller missile is fired at anything other than half power in any book.

I can think of HMS Hexapuma's engagement of the Peep pirates in the Nuncio system. But I can't think of any others as most sane skippers do not let the enemy into that close of a range.

Shadow of Saganami - Chapter 24 wrote:At such a short range, they were maximum-power shots, and current-generation Manticoran missile drives at that power setting produced an acceleration of over 900 KPS2. Worse, from the enemy's viewpoint, the bogeys were rushing to meet them at over two thousand KPS. Flight time was under thirty-four seconds, and it took the bogeys' tactical crews precious seconds to realize what had happened. Bogey Two's anti-missile crews got off a single counter-missile. Just one . . . that missed. The Haven-built destroyer's laser clusters managed to intercept three of the incoming laser heads. The others—all the others—ripped through the desperate, inner-boundary defenses and detonated in a single, cataclysmic instant that trapped the doomed vessel at the heart of a hell-born spider's lightning web.

kzt wrote:So why don't ships protect themselves by throwing out large fusion bombs that detonate just outside the sidewalks and blind incoming missiles?

Probably because the missiles used for Ziska and the Triple Ripple are specially designed to blind sensors and defeat EW. That's not something ships normally carry or can modify existing missiles to do.

Weird Harold wrote:Probably because the missiles used for Ziska and the Triple Ripple are specially designed to blind sensors and defeat EW. That's not something ships normally carry or can modify existing missiles to do.

Well duh.

You build them in a factory, where you build all your weapons. But since you are building a bomb that fits in a missile tube, not a missile that carries a bomb, it can be pretty damn big. Much larger than the bombs Haven used.

kzt wrote:You build them in a factory, where you build all your weapons. But since you are building a bomb that fits in a missile tube, not a missile that carries a bomb, it can be pretty damn big. Much larger than the bombs Haven used.

It wasn't the size, it was the nature:

War Of Honor
Chapter Twenty wrote:. Missiles which contained absolutely no seeking systems, no penetration aides, no standoff laser heads—only the biggest, nastiest, dirtiest nuclear warheads Mitchell Clapp or anyone he could recruit had been able to design.

kzt wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:Probably because the missiles used for Ziska and the Triple Ripple are specially designed to blind sensors and defeat EW. That's not something ships normally carry or can modify existing missiles to do.

Well duh.

You build them in a factory, where you build all your weapons. But since you are building a bomb that fits in a missile tube, not a missile that carries a bomb, it can be pretty damn big. Much larger than the bombs Haven used.

I believe the point is that the warheads and missiles used for Zizka/Triple Ripple (they're the same thing) were specifically designed and optimized for that specific task of disrupting sensors and EW, whereas the warheads on normal missiles are not and are instead designed and optimized around functioning in a laserhead, with a secondary contact mode. In fact, the Zizka missiles were almost entirely drives and warhead, with a little bit of space for the control link.


That being said, there's nothing inherently impossible about designing and building a much larger version for closer in defense, but, I would point out that if it's designed to screw up sensors and EW, I suspect detonating it near your own sensors and EW runs the risk of screwing your stuff up at as well.
And, of course, it's absolutely useless for any other purpose. And in order to use it, you'd either need dedicated launchers for it, or be replacing actual shipkillers/EW missiles in your launchers.

Kytheros wrote:... or be replacing actual shipkillers/EW missiles in your launchers.

To that end, what about replacing the warhead in a capitol missile with 3-4 small PD missiles as the 2nd/3rd stage with pre-programed triple-ripple effects? As an enemy offensive salvo is fired, you fire your capitol missiles and as the 2 salvoes approach each other in passing, suddenly your salvo turns into a triple-ripple right in the middle of transit range. then the next salvo, you could fire regular missile and still disrupt their salvo as they try to compensate for the expected point-defense burst as they pass. you send out PD and offensive salvos at irregular intervals and it becomes a guessing game for the enemy anytime your salvo passes through theirs. you could even seed a few PD missiles in the tail of your offensive salvo so when the two pass and you haven't fired a PD blast, the enemy relax a little and then - pop - take out some of their salvo, with your own offensive salvo safely past. If your in a situation where you have overwhelming superiority, you can dedicate some of each salvo as PD. In a situation where you have adequate superiority, you don't bother. In a fairly even situation you use them as the commander sees tactically advantageous. In an unfavorable situation you can use them for an added layer of defense to try to preserve your force till they run out or you get away and don't bother trying to take on the enemy. (fight them where your strong and flee where your not)

Somtaaw wrote:In contrast, the SLN ships would be something more like... "one missile, 30 countermissiles [and five thousand rounds of autocannon shells]"

Except autocannon are only of value against contact missiles. A laser head will detonate before entering the autocannon's range. (Although I still think they should be look at returning to some contact missiles. GA missiles now come in so fast that if they can survive to standoff range they have a decent chance of surviving all the way in.)

Weird Harold wrote:

darrell wrote:The original CM's used in OBS would have a half power mode of 85kG's for 48 seconds, which would be 960,000KM or a full power mode of 170kG's for 16 seconds for 214kG's

No RMN counter-missile since OBS has had a half-speed capability.

Doesn't mean a stepped-down missile can't be built, though.