Silesia, the system. who go it?

It is in the eastern ish section so I will say Manticore.
http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Silesia_System

Lord Skimper wrote:It is in the eastern ish section so I will say Manticore.
http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Silesia_System

As far as I am aware, the only person that knows how silesea is spread out is RFC. If I was doing the splitting, here is how I would do it:

To Manticore: The closest sector to marsh is the Sachsen Sector with | Sachsen | Slocum | Trellis

Three sectors border the Sachsen sector:

Breslau Sector with | Breslau | Brinkman | Hume | Gosset | Libau | Sandhill | Telmach | Walther

Posnan Sector with | Arendscheldt | Cromwell | Magyar | Posnan | Sigma | Sharon's Star | Schiller | Tyler's Star | Zoraster

Saginaw Sector with | Hera | Horus | Hyatt | Hyperion | Krieger's Star | Lutrell | Melchor | Prism | Psyche | Saginaw

That gives 4 sectors and 30 populated worlds that we know about to manticore.

The other 5 sectors only contain 9 total worlds between them that we know about. I presume that they all contain more than 1 - 3 system in each sector, so the andies will get them, including the world of Silesia itself.

darrell wrote:To Manticore: The closest sector to marsh is the Sachsen Sector...

The problem with that division is that those are also the systems closest to the Anderman Empire. The eastern half of the confederacy is closer to Basilisk and the rest of the SEM.

Unless the SEM is also going to annex Marsh -- not particularly likely -- Marsh is just going to have to adapt to being surrounded by the Anderman Empire.

Since the AE is "west" and Basilisk and direct access to the SEM is "east," Skimpy's assertion is IMHO the most likely result -- Silesia the system went to Manticore. However, not mush is known about the Eastern half of the Confederacy, so Silesia the system might be in the western half once all of the confederacy is counted and split down the middle.

Were I negotiating on behalf of the Andermani, I'd strive to make the AE-SEM border in Silesian space pretty much parallel with the Gregor-Basilisk hyperspace route, pushing the line 'northwest' until it passes through the center of what used to be the Confederacy.

In the long term, such a partition gives the Andies more accessibility to the region 'north' of Silesia.

darrell wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:It is in the eastern ish section so I will say Manticore.
http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Silesia_System

As far as I am aware, the only person that knows how silesea is spread out is RFC. If I was doing the splitting, here is how I would do it:

To Manticore: The closest sector to marsh is the Sachsen Sector with | Sachsen | Slocum | Trellis

Three sectors border the Sachsen sector:

Breslau Sector with | Breslau | Brinkman | Hume | Gosset | Libau | Sandhill | Telmach | Walther

Posnan Sector with | Arendscheldt | Cromwell | Magyar | Posnan | Sigma | Sharon's Star | Schiller | Tyler's Star | Zoraster

Saginaw Sector with | Hera | Horus | Hyatt | Hyperion | Krieger's Star | Lutrell | Melchor | Prism | Psyche | Saginaw

That gives 4 sectors and 30 populated worlds that we know about to manticore.

The other 5 sectors only contain 9 total worlds between them that we know about. I presume that they all contain more than 1 - 3 system in each sector, so the andies will get them, including the world of Silesia itself.

IIRC Sachsen is a major IAN fleet base. The SEM probably got sectors Hillman Saginaw and Terrance intact and probably split the Silesia sector. The AE and SEM probably negotiated the sectors as intact units and geographically and only split sectors to come close to an even split.

saber964 wrote:

darrell wrote:
As far as I am aware, the only person that knows how silesea is spread out is RFC. If I was doing the splitting, here is how I would do it:

To Manticore: The closest sector to marsh is the Sachsen Sector with | Sachsen | Slocum | Trellis

Three sectors border the Sachsen sector:

Breslau Sector with | Breslau | Brinkman | Hume | Gosset | Libau | Sandhill | Telmach | Walther

Posnan Sector with | Arendscheldt | Cromwell | Magyar | Posnan | Sigma | Sharon's Star | Schiller | Tyler's Star | Zoraster

Saginaw Sector with | Hera | Horus | Hyatt | Hyperion | Krieger's Star | Lutrell | Melchor | Prism | Psyche | Saginaw

That gives 4 sectors and 30 populated worlds that we know about to manticore.

The other 5 sectors only contain 9 total worlds between them that we know about. I presume that they all contain more than 1 - 3 system in each sector, so the andies will get them, including the world of Silesia itself.

IIRC Sachsen is a major IAN fleet base. The SEM probably got sectors Hillman Saginaw and Terrance intact and probably split the Silesia sector. The AE and SEM probably negotiated the sectors as intact units and geographically and only split sectors to come close to an even split.

Sorry, I've been away a couple days guys, a little while ago I posted the systems that should be on each side. In HoS there is an unlabeled map of the stars in Silesia which Manticore received. When you over lay this with the map of Silesia in SITS2, It is clear that Manticore got Silesia itself (the map actually had a star on it where the system was), as well as the Chalice down the eastern edge through the entire Posnan sector, with cut being a diagonal from the SW through the NE. Sorry, I don't have this map data atm, but if you search my posts, you should find the breakdown (I believe it was posted in September 2015), or if you wish, I will email you the maps.

Darrell's list above seems close to what I found.

I know this map isn't canon, but I still love it..

http://img07.deviantart.net/118b/i/2015 ... 6t1l7s.jpg

I always assumed that the SEM would take the top 'half' with a line drawn roughly between Marsh and Basilisk. Marsh would anchor (and likely eventually petition to join) the SEM's part while Terrance (or Basilisk, if you view it that way) will anchor the eastern part. Additionally, as far as the SEM is concerned, that 'contains' the Andies while giving the SEM better access to any newer systems found to the galactic north (the exploration of which I remember reading Basilisk had re-ignited).

I think the Silesian system has a huge imaginary wall through the middle of it so that half the time it's in Manty space and half the time it's in Andi space.
Makes the tax code a bit complex though


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Annachie wrote:I think the Silesian system has a huge imaginary wall through the middle of it so that half the time it's in Manty space and half the time it's in Andi space.
Makes the tax code a bit complex though


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Warning: Thread going off on a tangent.

I suspect a fair tax code for a planetary government, let alone a multiple planetary government's tax code, is much more complex from a farmer's point of view, since farmers only get paid when the harvest is brought in and sold.

Since farming is seasonally dependent, each planet would have its own harvest times (plural) based on its own year. And the harvest time for one part of the planet will vary across the planet's surface, depending on the crops and seasons. Even ranching is affected by the seasons, as a lot of animals have a specific time they give birth (lambing, calving, etc. season).

Just consider Earth from the point of view of a planetary government that is tasked with making a fair tax code for agriculture for the entire planet, considering just the date the taxes are due. If the taxes agriculture are to be paid once a year after the harvest (when the farmer/rancher has made money), when in the year are they to be paid?

Seasons vary across the Earth, with the seasons reversed in the northern and southern hemispheres, and the tropical zones having minimal variation in temperature. Then you add in the variation in climate affecting the seasons imposed by the arrangement of continents and the oceans.

For example, North America and Europe have four seasons (winter, spring, summer and autumn). While India has four seasons (winter, summer or pre-monsoon, monsoon or rainy, post-monsoon or autumn) for most of the country, the Himalayan states have an additional season of spring, and Australia has two major climate zones, one of four seasons (winter, spring, summer, autumn) and one of two seasons (wet and dry). And South America and Africa each have their own complex set of climates, with continents that straddle both sides of the equator, and with the local seasons profoundly affected by proximity or distance from oceans and seas, the temperatures of those bodies of water, and widely varying distance of an area from the equator. Plus northern Asia with four seasons (winter, spring, summer, autumn).

Then add in on top of the seasons the varying crops that are rotated, each with its own harvest time (winter wheat, spring wheat, etc.). Once each of those harvests are successfully brought in, they can then be sold so he can pay his expenses and taxes.

Then we come to some of the expenses for a farm or a ranch being tied to the seasons, while others are on annual basis.

It all becomes very complex for a planetary wide government to set a single fair date when taxes are due for those directly involved in agriculture (the farmer/rancher) as their sole or primary source of earned income (as opposed to investment income such as interest on savings). But while the problem is complex, it isn't impossible to solve, if instead of one date when taxes are due the government sets multiple dates, one for each climate biome.

No government here on Earth has ever had to face the problem on a planetary basis. But a planetary/system government with only one habitable planet in a science fiction universe such as the Honorverse will have to deal with it. The problem simply becomes more involved if multiple habitable planets are part of a system wide government (The Star Kingdom of Manticore both before and after the annexation of Trevor's Star and the Lynx system) or an interstellar government (The Anderman Empire?) that exercises direct control over tax policy of each individual planet. (That excludes the Solarian League as a government, since the League government does not have the ability to tax its citizens directly, but not the individual system governments that are part of the League. It may also exclude the Anderman Empire--we simply have no or insufficient information on how the Empire taxes its citizens. It does not exclude the Star Empire, since we found out in Chapter 14 of Storm From the Shadows that "the citizens of the Talbott Quadrant and of the Star Kingdom would pay both local taxes and imperial taxes.")

We now return you to the regular thread drift.

Vince wrote:

Annachie wrote:I think the Silesian system has a huge imaginary wall through the middle of it so that half the time it's in Manty space and half the time it's in Andi space.
Makes the tax code a bit complex though


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Warning: Thread going off on a tangent.

I suspect a fair tax code for a planetary government, let alone a multiple planetary government's tax code, is much more complex from a farmer's point of view, since farmers only get paid when the harvest is brought in and sold.

Since farming is seasonally dependent, each planet would have its own harvest times (plural) based on its own year. And the harvest time for one part of the planet will vary across the planet's surface, depending on the crops and seasons. Even ranching is affected by the seasons, as a lot of animals have a specific time they give birth (lambing, calving, etc. season).

Just consider Earth from the point of view of a planetary government that is tasked with making a fair tax code for agriculture for the entire planet, considering just the date the taxes are due. If the taxes agriculture are to be paid once a year after the harvest (when the farmer/rancher has made money), when in the year are they to be paid?

Seasons vary across the Earth, with the seasons reversed in the northern and southern hemispheres, and the tropical zones having minimal variation in temperature. Then you add in the variation in climate affecting the seasons imposed by the arrangement of continents and the oceans.

For example, North America and Europe have four seasons (winter, spring, summer and autumn). While India has four seasons (winter, summer or pre-monsoon, monsoon or rainy, post-monsoon or autumn) for most of the country, the Himalayan states have an additional season of spring, and Australia has two major climate zones, one of four seasons (winter, spring, summer, autumn) and one of two seasons (wet and dry). And South America and Africa each have their own complex set of climates, with continents that straddle both sides of the equator, and with the local seasons profoundly affected by proximity or distance from oceans and seas, the temperatures of those bodies of water, and widely varying distance of an area from the equator. Plus northern Asia with four seasons (winter, spring, summer, autumn).

Then add in on top of the seasons the varying crops that are rotated, each with its own harvest time (winter wheat, spring wheat, etc.). Once each of those harvests are successfully brought in, they can then be sold so he can pay his expenses and taxes.

Then we come to some of the expenses for a farm or a ranch being tied to the seasons, while others are on annual basis.

It all becomes very complex for a planetary wide government to set a single fair date when taxes are due for those directly involved in agriculture (the farmer/rancher) as their sole or primary source of earned income (as opposed to investment income such as interest on savings). But while the problem is complex, it isn't impossible to solve, if instead of one date when taxes are due the government sets multiple dates, one for each climate biome.

No government here on Earth has ever had to face the problem on a planetary basis. But a planetary/system government with only one habitable planet in a science fiction universe such as the Honorverse will have to deal with it. The problem simply becomes more involved if multiple habitable planets are part of a system wide government (The Star Kingdom of Manticore both before and after the annexation of Trevor's Star and the Lynx system) or an interstellar government (The Anderman Empire?) that exercises direct control over tax policy of each individual planet. (That excludes the Solarian League as a government, since the League government does not have the ability to tax its citizens directly, but not the individual system governments that are part of the League. It may also exclude the Anderman Empire--we simply have no or insufficient information on how the Empire taxes its citizens. It does not exclude the Star Empire, since we found out in Chapter 14 of Storm From the Shadows that "the citizens of the Talbott Quadrant and of the Star Kingdom would pay both local taxes and imperial taxes.")

We now return you to the regular thread drift.

https://fairtax.org/about/how-fairtax-w ... aQodu3gONw

you are confusing a consumption tax with a value added tax.

with a value added tax, the farmer, baker, grocery store and hungry consumer all pay a tax on the wheat that the farmer grows.

with a consumption tax, only the hungry consumer pays a tax on the wheat that the farmer grows. No tax is paid on exported goods while taxes are paid on imported goods. (cheaper exports and a better balance of trade)