Being on the dole....

At risk of being a spoilsport, may I suggest that this topic be taken to the Free Range topics forum where it belongs?

The subject at hand is politically explosive, especially here in the states and we have members of the forum who have some very strong views on this. In short, I have no faith at all in the notion that we can keep it friendly and respectful...

I, for one, am here to discuss the writings of David Weber and have no desire to watch this descend into political wrangling. So for those who wish to mix it up, please move the discussion
elsewhere so that the participants know what they are getting into.

Don

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n7axw wrote:At risk of being a spoilsport, may I suggest that this topic be taken to the Free Range topics forum where it belongs?

The subject at hand is politically explosive, especially here in the states and we have members of the forum who have some very strong views on this. In short, I have no faith at all in the notion that we can keep it friendly and respectful...

I, for one, am here to discuss the writings of David Weber and have no desire to watch this descend into political wrangling. So for those who wish to mix it up, please move the discussion
elsewhere so that the participants know what they are getting into.

Don

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Second.

kzt wrote:The leading cause of death of homeless people is drug overdoses. Before that it was HIV from IV drug use. What does that suggest about the homeless population?

It suggests that there is a correlation between homelessness and drug use. But what it doesn't suggest is whether drug use is the cause of homelessness or vice versa.

And if you don't think a lot of the homeless are on the street because of mental illness I have news for you. They are.

But are they homeless because they're mentally ill, or are they homeless because mental illness is severely stigmatized and american public health care is abysmally bad at providing service for people unfortunate enough to not have health care?

And yes, 26% is a very high number. It is not a majority, however, not by a long shot.

To be more topical, the People's Republic is an example of how basic income can fail. I suggested on the Haven welfare thread that BLS was probably too high when it was implemented and instead of letting inflation correct the issue, they kept raising it instead. Inflation, as one would expect, kept scrambling up after it.

I'm disappointed about the Swiss rejecting the idea. We really need to see how it works in a first world economy with a sovereign currency. The US economy is too foundational to mess with and most of Europe doesn't have a sovereign currency anymore. Neither do states or provinces.

"Very dangerous. You go first."

I do not like the fact that across the nation Homelessness is misunderstood and misrepresented. This ignorance is part of the problem.

I've indicated that my family and I have been involved with giving to the homeless communities in several cities across the US. We donate millions a year from family and friends alone. I actively work with homeless individuals to look into their eyes and hearts instead of just blindly giving behind a charity in order to legally claim as a tax offset.

What I have found is that the statistics are rather misinformed and skewed. Most of the homeless abuse alcohol than any other substance - to deaden the real problems inside their world - the latest figures given is around 38 %. The 26 % is other "substances." Yet, in my experience (over two decades working with the homeless) I've found that in "most" instances, substance abuse is more of a result of being homeless rather than a cause. Many of the homeless have lost jobs, careers, wives, husbands, parents or children to some unforeseen cause that has resulted in substance abuse to deaden the pain. Women who ran away from abusive spouses. Children from broken homes. Men who have lost their jobs and families from being laid off work.

Then there is a rather high number where society has failed them. Adults who cannot read or write. Imagine not being able to enjoy a good book or even to not enjoy a bad book. Imagine not being able to read a magazine in a doctor's office. What do you suppose these people will turn to for entertainment?

My family and friends have personally been responsible for turning the lives around for many of the homeless - where in many cases they are truly just looking for and deserving a break. Fourteen homeless people shall graduate this year, with our help. Three with honors!

The face of the homeless is growing frighteningly younger each year. Substance abuse is not the inherent problem. It is just a medication to hide the true horrors that lie deeply buried beneath the skin. Oftentimes, the hindrance is just beneath the top layer, accessible with just a bit of compassion - for those willing to be a part of the solution without misinformed eyes of condemnation and judgement.


The leading cause of death amongst the homeless is not drug overdose - it is depression from a lack of hope.

Canada tried an experiment on the idea in the 70's. Not much effect on the labour market
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

Odium wrote:Canada tried an experiment on the idea in the 70's. Not much effect on the labour market
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

the results are inconclusive: No final Mincome report was issued,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome wrote:However, some have argued these drops may be artificially low because participants knew the guaranteed income was temporary.[6] This represents an important limitation to the knowledge of the impact of a guaranteed annual income; little is known about the long term effects on willingness to work.

In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did.

there is a major flaw in the ointment. where do you get the money to pay for the program? I have just one word to say: Greece.

darrell wrote:there is a major flaw in the ointment. where do you get the money to pay for the program? I have just one word to say: Greece.

That's why this needs to be tried with a sovereign currency. Part of Greece's many problem was that they had no control over monetary policy. With control over monetary policy, a country would have more flexibility in implementing the program.

The question is: will an economy remain productive enough to support the tax base and currency demand required to keep it working?

noblehunter wrote:The question is: will an economy remain productive enough to support the tax base and currency demand required to keep it working?

... and will it remain productive enough to, in the Swiss example, support large numbers of people from the rest of the EU deciding to go and live there? Anyone who worked within, say, 60 miles of the Swiss border wouldn't even need to find a new job!