Last use for SL SD captured

Sigs wrote:

Theemile wrote:
Actually, Grayson got 34 Victories, 18 duquesnes, 3 Havens, and 5 Nuveau Paris DNs. Erewhon bought 8 King Williams and a couple Andurils. The only ships kept were the remaining Samothraces, Sphnix and Gryphons. (With the Belerophon and some Gladiator DNs in Reserve)

Manticore had ~ 250 SDs in may 1920, and Grayson had ~90, and fewer than 50 tube SDs were lost at BoMA - most likely ~250 survived the war

How many would still be in service? The RMN was in such short supply for SD's that I cannot see them putting any SD back in reserve even with new construction coming online. Having 250 old style SD's is still better than having no SD's so I doubt they removed all of them after the mauling that they got in the Battle of Manticore... but I could be wrong.

On the may 1920 fleetlist, about 40% were active, with more coming out of reserve to cover the gaps. By the end of july 1921 (BoMA), ships were starting to cycle back into the reserve to free up crews for the Python lump, which was complete before dec 31st, 1921.

I don't mean to use the hulls other than the little bit that surrounds the missile and counter missile tubes.

Just some parts of the inner sections the impeller nodes and the missile CM tubes.

This makes a minimally armed defensively armed Fast Freighter. One can use all the SL displays etc... You just need to fit better pen aides to the missiles. EW to the EW missiles and break up the Ships. 340 Fast Freighters built from 160-200 SL SD using the main and secondary bridges. Weapons stations CM stations Bottles and wedges...sensors etc... Cost nothing in new ships new parts other than some tech specs on the pen aides from the Lerm Erm missiles.

Dispersed yards around each of the Silesian systems and 8 ships being dismantled part by part system by system.

Silesia gets filled up with Fast freighters that look like SD or Dreadnaughts. Have military speed to move stuff around, both in N space and Hyper space. Require no escorts. Less than 1000 weapon specialists to train the rest of the freighter crews and can operate pretty much anywhere without worrying about pirates. A 100 Freighters visiting Mesa, A 100 bringing tech support to Beowulf. Leaving 140 some moving supplies for building shipyards in the Protectorate and rest of the Star Empire.

When you need to move back into SL space it will be handy to have ships that can move through hostile territory without so many escorts that will be needed elsewhere.

There will be a plethora of SD scale SL impeller Nodes and spare parts.

Lord Skimper wrote:I don't mean to use the hulls other than the little bit that surrounds the missile and counter missile tubes.

Just some parts of the inner sections the impeller nodes and the missile CM tubes.

This makes a minimally armed defensively armed Fast Freighter. One can use all the SL displays etc... You just need to fit better pen aides to the missiles. EW to the EW missiles and break up the Ships. 340 Fast Freighters built from 160-200 SL SD using the main and secondary bridges. Weapons stations CM stations Bottles and wedges...sensors etc... Cost nothing in new ships new parts other than some tech specs on the pen aides from the Lerm Erm missiles.

Dispersed yards around each of the Silesian systems and 8 ships being dismantled part by part system by system.

Silesia gets filled up with Fast freighters that look like SD or Dreadnaughts. Have military speed to move stuff around, both in N space and Hyper space. Require no escorts. Less than 1000 weapon specialists to train the rest of the freighter crews and can operate pretty much anywhere without worrying about pirates. A 100 Freighters visiting Mesa, A 100 bringing tech support to Beowulf. Leaving 140 some moving supplies for building shipyards in the Protectorate and rest of the Star Empire.

When you need to move back into SL space it will be handy to have ships that can move through hostile territory without so many escorts that will be needed elsewhere.

There will be a plethora of SD scale SL impeller Nodes and spare parts.

I should state it will require 340 Freighter hulls. This will be an Armed Merchant Freighter without LAC nor Pods. 6 Missile tubes and 24 CM Tubes. 4 SD scale Grasers. No real armour but full SD scale Sidewalls plus fore and aft. SL compensators and for the most part everything will be hidden behind panels. Think of it as a defense heavy Wayfarer. Not a ship that looks like a freighter hoping to trojan horse attacking pirates. But a paper Dragon that looks like a SD but can run away from anything that can bother a SD and bluff anything else that the SL has.

Beowulf, the various Talbot cluster systems and others can supply all the parts required. Such a ship would also be able to operate as a disguised special forces 'freighter' ship. Even if inspected appearing as a SL ship. It will be a long time till full peaceful economies come back with the requirement for civilian wedges and undefended ships. As is with no current shipping the SL systems will be more than willing to pay a premium to ship their goods.

For the Silesian systems this 'Paper' Dragon class AMF will free up Manti ships for deployment else where.

Being Q ships or S ships few crew are needed, 100+ per ship more than normal. 125-150. This will provide the old school training ships for new crews and bringing up the levels and crews that Silesia can accommodate without taxing the Alliance.

Dismantling the SL SD will free up parts. Will teach many Silesians the ship tech skills and will make hundreds of secure security transport freighters for years of use to come.

Add in the 36 or so captured SL Battlecruiser one for each Silesian system as flagship of each System. DD CL and CA captures. To fill in gaps and train in space the crews as need be. Solly pirates and raiders will run into a handful of Solly ship designs and 10+ Dragon Class AMF's that look from a distance like their mighty SD.

Operating in backworld SL Rim and Shell systems normally serviced by a single Freighter a ship that appears to be a SD will scare away any pirate or privateer. And if engaged can still defend itself plus off bore firing and Silesian Viper missile, variants. Fire breathing paper dragons wrapped in Sidewalls. Even after said privateers learn that these are Fast Freighters not SD after a single engagement will be unsure, if they survive an encounter.

SL systems offered security services will be grateful of any freighter service plus any Security ships. With Future SL SD donations the programme could easily expand across the SL. Even after cheaper civilian Freighter service returns, Dragons could be reconfigured to passenger transports or Security Ships. Plus there will always be a need for fast secure transport. SSS Skimpers Security Shipping.

Quote
"Dispersed yards around each of the Silesian systems and 8 ships being dismantled part by part system by system.

Silesia gets filled up with Fast freighters that look like SD or Dreadnaughts. Have military speed to move stuff around, both in N space and Hyper space. Require no escorts. Less than 1000 weapon specialists to train the rest of the freighter crews and can operate pretty much anywhere without worrying about pirates. A 100 Freighters visiting Mesa, A 100 bringing tech support to Beowulf. Leaving 140 some moving supplies for building shipyards in the Protectorate and rest of the Star Empire."

Let me get this straight in my mind.

You want to send Solly SD's to the Sillies so they can break them up and make them into fast freighters.

The same Sillies that couldn't be trusted with the Confed navy ships (that were even less useful than Solly ships and ranged from barely moving junk to out and out death traps) that were stationed in their systems?

You know, the ones that they sold to pirates and privateers- when they bothered to go ahead and really build instead of just taking the money from the central government and claimed they built?

You want to give these people SD's? (OK, not good SD's by any stretch of the imagination but still...) That are relatively functional- like they can move and shoot and everything?

On purpose?

not defending the idea but that was a silesa under the control of the corrupt.

now that Manticore runs half of it and have gone to great length to remove most of the trouble makers and done so in a public (and one can hope dramatic. i.e raids by marines in battle armour) manner, then the few corrupt ones left know they have keep noses clean for a long time before they'll be trusted enough to even think about going back to their old games. of course as soon as they do go back to their old tricks the ONI or SIS people watching will have them arrested/removed in 2 seconds flat.

so in theory it is not the issue you imply.

better question is why bother? cheaper to build from new then convert the waste of materials that is a solly SD when you factor in operating costs.

Dauntless wrote:not defending the idea but that was a silesa under the control of the corrupt.

now that Manticore runs half of it and have gone to great length to remove most of the trouble makers and done so in a public (and one can hope dramatic. i.e raids by marines in battle armour) manner, then the few corrupt ones left know they have keep noses clean for a long time before they'll be trusted enough to even think about going back to their old games. of course as soon as they do go back to their old tricks the ONI or SIS people watching will have them arrested/removed in 2 seconds flat.

so in theory it is not the issue you imply.

better question is why bother? cheaper to build from new then convert the waste of materials that is a solly SD when you factor in operating costs.

At the end of WoH(or possibly in AAC/SoSag), there was a summary of the Silesian deal. They left just about the entire civilian hierarchy in place, effectively pardoning the final regime in exchange for its approval to the annexation and partition.

I recall it because there was a line that said "we're watching them and the first time they slip up, we bring the hammer down."

Sure, plenty of them may have cleaned up their acts. But in that case, they're still going to have those contacts from the good(or bad) old days and top-line Solly hardware may be too tempting to pass up for those willing to go far away from Manticoran space in exchange for a lifetime grade pay-off.

munroburton wrote:Sure, plenty of them may have cleaned up their acts. But in that case, they're still going to have those contacts from the good(or bad) old days and top-line Solly hardware may be too tempting to pass up for those willing to go far away from Manticoran space in exchange for a lifetime grade pay-off.

Destroyers maybe. Cruisers, possibly. SDs? no way in hell.

A SLN Scientist class has a crew of "over six thousand." In past interations of this dead horse, the consensus estimate is nearly a thousand are required simply to ferry one from one star system to another, with no attempt to man or operate weapons.

That is simply way too much manpower for any pirate organization to invest and any single-system star system is going to think twice about putting that many eggs in one basket.

Add in the minor detail that any misappropriated SD is going to face the RMN and RMN tech and it is not looking good for the life-expectancy of anyone crewing such a misappropriated ship.

PS: Contrary to what seems popular opinion, a SLN Scientist-class SD is NOT a self-aware moon, like Dahak, that only requires one human aboard to function even if that human is totally ignorant.

Weird Harold wrote:

munroburton wrote:Sure, plenty of them may have cleaned up their acts. But in that case, they're still going to have those contacts from the good(or bad) old days and top-line Solly hardware may be too tempting to pass up for those willing to go far away from Manticoran space in exchange for a lifetime grade pay-off.

Destroyers maybe. Cruisers, possibly. SDs? no way in hell.

A SLN Scientist class has a crew of "over six thousand." In past interations of this dead horse, the consensus estimate is nearly a thousand are required simply to ferry one from one star system to another, with no attempt to man or operate weapons.

That is simply way too much manpower for any pirate organization to invest and any single-system star system is going to think twice about putting that many eggs in one basket.

Add in the minor detail that any misappropriated SD is going to face the RMN and RMN tech and it is not looking good for the life-expectancy of anyone crewing such a misappropriated ship.

PS: Contrary to what seems popular opinion, a SLN Scientist-class SD is NOT a self-aware moon, like Dahak, that only requires one human aboard to function even if that human is totally ignorant.

On a side note, according to SITS, almost all Silly Shipyards are FG-CL level yards. Only 3 can build CAs and 1 is a BB level yard, though only BCs were built. And this was the technology, hardware, and training to build SILLY ships.

I don't doubt they can do small repairs on larger ships, or just slowly strip them, but rebuilding SDs into a mill spec freighter or reconfiguring an SD seems like a stretch that would require an investment in the shipyard before they could quickly or economically do something like that.

Theemile wrote:I don't doubt they can do small repairs on larger ships, or just slowly strip them, but rebuilding SDs into a mill spec freighter or reconfiguring an SD seems like a stretch that would require an investment in the shipyard before they could quickly or economically do something like that.

Word of Weber is that rebuilding an SD into a mill spec freighter (or anything else that doesn't have ship of the wall levels of armor and compartmentalization -- and the only thing that does have that is a ship of the wall) cannot be done economically by anyone. Heck, rebuilding an SD into an SD(P) cannot be done economically by anyone. If you can't use an SD as an SD (and since using a Scientist as an SD is an expensive way for a few thousand people to commit suicide, I'd recommend not using one as an SD), its only value is in any components that can be stripped from it and as scrap.

drothgery wrote:

Word of Weber is that rebuilding an SD into a mill spec freighter (or anything else that doesn't have ship of the wall levels of armor and compartmentalization -- and the only thing that does have that is a ship of the wall) cannot be done economically by anyone. Heck, rebuilding an SD into an SD(P) cannot be done economically by anyone. If you can't use an SD as an SD (and since using a Scientist as an SD is an expensive way for a few thousand people to commit suicide, I'd recommend not using one as an SD), its only value is in any components that can be stripped from it and as scrap.[/quote]
If you have a bunch of them, trained crews and need to accomplish something right now like moving a bunch of people from a - b then it might work. But it's never going to be the best answer.