Just for the Halibut... What of the RF post GA victory

Louis R wrote:Albrecht is probably a lot older than he looks to be, and while it wouldn't surprise me if an Alpha line could accept prolong for a longer period than a 'normal', it also wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't work for them at all [IOW, the therapy duplicates the mods that are built-in to Mesans, and the life-extension mechanism is already saturated.] Either way, if Abrecht was decanted fairly late in Papa's life, his parents could well already have run out their natural, to the extent they were 'natural', spans. That might be particularly true if, as older-model superpersons, they didn't get the fully developed life-span enhancement - that is, they could have used prolong, but it wasn't around in time to do them any good.

Or, of course, as a rational man would, Abrecht's father ceded control of the family enterprise to his more-capable son, and is now ensconced as Governor of Darius. Since we've never actually been there, we wouldn't know about that.

As for siblings and cousins, it's implied that the boys were created specifically to provide him with a cadre of equally capable executive vice-despots as the Plan rolled into it's end-game. Prior to that, it would seem to have been one Detweiler at a time since the line went underground, each better engineered than the last. What I can't figure out is why Evelina didn't get at least one daughter for her own.

munroburton wrote:I do find it curious that Albrecht has no living parents and appears to have no siblings(the clones are considered his sons). No cousins either.

With daughters you can't protect the bloodline. I would imagine that Detweiler didn't allow females to be born for that reason. As in, wouldn't Detweiler want his boys to only procreate within the line? Which would be with whom by the way? And his daughters could be raped by what Detweiler could consider to be "demon seed."

IIRC, wasn't there some aspect of Detweiler's gene mods that were considered "locked?"

munroburton wrote:I do find it curious that Albrecht has no living parents and appears to have no siblings(the clones are considered his sons). No cousins either.

Louis R wrote:Albrecht is probably a lot older than he looks to be, and while it wouldn't surprise me if an Alpha line could accept prolong for a longer period than a 'normal', it also wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't work for them at all [IOW, the therapy duplicates the mods that are built-in to Mesans, and the life-extension mechanism is already saturated.] Either way, if Abrecht was decanted fairly late in Papa's life, his parents could well already have run out their natural, to the extent they were 'natural', spans. That might be particularly true if, as older-model superpersons, they didn't get the fully developed life-span enhancement - that is, they could have used prolong, but it wasn't around in time to do them any good.

Or, of course, as a rational man would, Abrecht's father ceded control of the family enterprise to his more-capable son, and is now ensconced as Governor of Darius. Since we've never actually been there, we wouldn't know about that.

As for siblings and cousins, it's implied that the boys were created specifically to provide him with a cadre of equally capable executive vice-despots as the Plan rolled into it's end-game. Prior to that, it would seem to have been one Detweiler at a time since the line went underground, each better engineered than the last. What I can't figure out is why Evelina didn't get at least one daughter for her own.

cthia wrote:With daughters you can't protect the bloodline. I would imagine that Detweiler didn't allow females to be born for that reason. As in, wouldn't Detweiler want his boys to only procreate within the line? Which would be with whom by the way? And his daughters could be raped by what Detweiler could consider to be "demon seed."

IIRC, wasn't there some aspect of Detweiler's gene mods that were considered "locked?"

There's a comment from one of the Detweiller line, who was a woman. I think it was about wolves.

There's no indication that the Mesan Alpha genome is locked. It might be, but there's no textev one way or the other.

They aren't procreating anyway. It's designer feti all the way down.

cthia wrote:With daughters you can't protect the bloodline. I would imagine that Detweiler didn't allow females to be born for that reason. As in, wouldn't Detweiler want his boys to only procreate within the line? Which would be with whom by the way? And his daughters could be raped by what Detweiler could consider to be "demon seed."

IIRC, wasn't there some aspect of Detweiler's gene mods that were considered "locked?"

Louis R wrote:As for siblings and cousins, it's implied that the boys were created specifically to provide him with a cadre of equally capable executive vice-despots as the Plan rolled into it's end-game. Prior to that, it would seem to have been one Detweiler at a time since the line went underground, each better engineered than the last. What I can't figure out is why Evelina didn't get at least one daughter for her own.

munroburton wrote:I do find it curious that Albrecht has no living parents and appears to have no siblings(the clones are considered his sons). No cousins either.

IMO the most likely possibility is that Albrecht's parents weren't old enough to receive prolong so are dead, much like the parents. of hamish alaxander.

Albrecht might have other sons or daughters with his wife, along with siblings and cousins. After all he has 36 clones but we have only met 3, it is well withing the relm of possibility that he has other relative we just haven't met along with half his clones.

JohnRoth wrote:
There's a comment from one of the Detweiller line, who was a woman. I think it was about wolves.

There's no indication that the Mesan Alpha genome is locked. It might be, but there's no textev one way or the other.

In CoG, Chapter 34, is the quote from Cecilia Detweiler (LD's great-great-great-granddaughter) --

"We will bring down the great bison with a pack of wolves. The tricky part is that we don't control the wolves".

kzt wrote:

Sigs wrote:So far every technological breakthrough has had a counter once the other side has a chance to study the breakthrough.

Sure. As soon as they have one to study or at least replicate the entire set of 100 years of research and development.

And I will point out that the after 100 years the most effective counter to submarines is another submarine, all the other counters are highly sub-optimal.

In this case, all you need to do is be able to detect them. Unless their mode of transportation gives them a great tactical advantage in speed over the GA.


Look at the battle of the Atlantic, all sorts of new technologies and techniques were used to defeat the wolfpack's.

The two Detweiler daughters are forever locked away in a secret compound on the edge of the Honorverse because, by coincidence, their given names are Rose & Heather.

Despite that, they both pull the strings of the Long Range Planning Board and have the final say in all its matchmaking.

HB does have a point!

Imagine some of the SL industrial powerhouses banding together for protection. An Alexandar the Great type arises from the apparent death of the SL to storm across the Galaxy. The facts are that GA technical edge does not mean that the SL or SL successor have to catch up or surpass the GA. Quantity has a quality all of it's own. Just ask the Germans in WWII, the Sherman tank was an inferior product in comparison to the German tanks. The problem was their was way more American tanks produced than German tanks. By developing good artillery tactics the Americans found a way to neutralize the German tanks. (They stole the artillery tactics from the Germans of WWI.) A few strategic upgrades to the SL fleet, then the quantity can become decisive. The Russians proved that size and industrial potential have a quality all its own in WW2. The Germans virtually wiped out most of the Russian military and industry during the first year of war with Russia. So size has quantity all of its own.

Now, I think Honor's plan will effectively neutralize the SL but it is not guaranteed. To many outside factors can affect the strategy. Remember, its always easier to duplicate known military technology or come out with a counter to known military technology.





What do really know about what's in SL research department? Not much! Second, it's always easier to duplicate known technology due to variety of ways.

Not so much known technologies, but something you know already exists and works.

Assuming you're willing to admit it exists and works of course.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Just a note:

Historically, Alexanders do _not_ arise out of the death of anything. They arise equipped with the highly efficient and lethally advanced military machinery built up by several generations of their predecessors.

As a case in point, Alexander of Macedon would have been a zerch without his father's army and the arrogance of youth and inexperience. [the fact that the Persian Empire happened to be in one of its Solarian-League-like periods was a big help. Any of the more competent Shahs would have eaten him for lunch.]

Any Honorverse Alexanders will have to arise out of Manticore, Haven, Grayson [none of which have the political environment that would permit it] or Darius. Maya Sector would be another possibility, but I think they're a little bit to far from the military bleeding edge to be potent enough.

And in any case, one should always bear in mind the fate of Alexander's empire

smr wrote:HB does have a point!

Imagine some of the SL industrial powerhouses banding together for protection. An Alexandar the Great type arises from the apparent death of the SL to storm across the Galaxy. The facts are that GA technical edge does not mean that the SL or SL successor have to catch up or surpass the GA. Quantity has a quality all of it's own. Just ask the Germans in WWII, the Sherman tank was an inferior product in comparison to the German tanks. The problem was their was way more American tanks produced than German tanks. By developing good artillery tactics the Americans found a way to neutralize the German tanks. (They stole the artillery tactics from the Germans of WWI.) A few strategic upgrades to the SL fleet, then the quantity can become decisive. The Russians proved that size and industrial potential have a quality all its own in WW2. The Germans virtually wiped out most of the Russian military and industry during the first year of war with Russia. So size has quantity all of its own.

Now, I think Honor's plan will effectively neutralize the SL but it is not guaranteed. To many outside factors can affect the strategy. Remember, its always easier to duplicate known military technology or come out with a counter to known military technology.





What do really know about what's in SL research department? Not much! Second, it's always easier to duplicate known technology due to variety of ways.