Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests

MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by cthia   » Mon May 30, 2016 7:24 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Holy guest list, Batman! A well placed kinetic strike then, would have been a 'Hannibal Lecter' type of decapitation - surgically clean and sharp! At least I know that that kind of creme-o-the-crop does come together at once. Gees! It could be downright fatal for several navies' command structure if Abigail married a Manty and the MA found out in time, under these circumstances.

Interesting post Vince, and on-time. Thanks.

Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:If there was some prestigious event, like a certain monumental wedding that brought many of Her Majesty's military officers and many of its alliance partners together on-planet at Mount Royal Palace - and perhaps if the MA can learn of this event and location enough in advance, perhaps it can serve up a kinetic strike to decapitate many of the GA's crème de la crème.

Imagine, Honor, Michelle, Theisman, Truman, White Haven, Hemphill, The Admiralty and quite possibly the Queen herself. EE violations of the Lenny Det type can decapitate an entire government.

Yet, what one event would cause so many to assemble in one spot? A wedding perhaps??? What certain wedding can cause the GA, in a sentimental moment of weakness, to place so many of its officers in one Mount Royal basket? If a Grayson, say Abigail, married the right Manticoran it would be big. Huge! Monumental!! Many would attend.

A successful kinetic strike by the MA on Manticore, meant to decapitate several navies command structure by removing so many of the most important tactical and strategic commanders would be devastating to the GA and would weaken them considerably. A Manticore laid to waste just may incite the League's desperate gorilla to pound on its chest again, prompting the chiseled down gorilla to launch another "Kick 'Em When They're Down attack!" With that, the MA could speed things up a bit with a renewed war.

Although I can't think of a single event that would be so monumental that so many seasoned officers couldn't miss - except perhaps a marriage between a certain Grayson and a Manticoran.

The problem for the MAlign is in the part of your post that I bolded. Since a wedding recently took place on Manticore without incident that included everyone on your list except Michelle Henke, plus some others in:
A Rising Thunder, Chapter 33 wrote:Now, as Honor looked across to where Roger and Rivka stood on the terrace, smiling easily, laughing as they chatted with one guest after another, she knew how right she’d been.
“It is an impressive guest list, I suppose, Jacques,” Hamish said now, his tone judicious.
“‘Impressive’?” another voice repeated. “What? Is that your studied understatement of the day?”
Honor turned with a chuckle as a life-support chair slid up beside her.
“I think it’s probably as good a description as Uncle Jacques’s ‘remarkable,’ Emily,” she said. “And you have to remember the source. Neither of them is all that good with the language, you know.”
“You’ll pay for that later,” Hamish promised her with a devilish glint, and Nimitz bleeked a laugh on Honor’s shoulder.
“I await the moment with trepidation,” Honor told her husband sweetly, then turned back to her uncle. “However, I have to say that in your own language-challenged ways, you’re both right. I wonder if there’s ever been a wedding quite like it?”
“I doubt it,” Emily said. “In fact, I’m pretty darn sure there hasn’t been one like it since the Diaspora got everybody off Old Earth, anyway! Let’s see, we’ve got the Empress of Manticore, the President of the Republic of Haven, the Protector of Grayson, the chairman of the Beowulf Board of Directors, Queen Berry, and the Andermani emperor’s first cousin. Not to mention your own humble self as Steadholder Harrington and the commander of the Grand Fleet, followed by a scattering of mere planetary grand dukes, dukes, earls, members of the Havenite cabinet, three other members of the Beowulf Board of Directors, the chairman of the Alliance joint chiefs of staff, the First Space Lord, the Havenite chief of naval operations, the Beowulfan chief of naval operations, High Admiral Yanakov, Admiral Yu, two or three dozen ambassadors, and God alone only knows who else. I’m sure there’ve been other weddings that had the same guest count or better, but bringing all of these people together in one place?”
She shook her head, and Honor found herself nodding in agreement.
Italics are the author's.
And Emily forgot to mention many of the other RMN Admirals which were mentioned by Rivka in:
A Rising Thunder, Chapter 28 wrote:“I think so,” Roger agreed, then looked at Rivka as she laughed suddenly. “What’s so funny?” he asked.
“I was just thinking that the Navy’s going to be pretty well represented, anyway,” she explained. “Your uncle’s going to be present in uniform, and so is Admiral Truman, Earl White Haven, Admiral Caparelli, Admiral Givens, and Admiral Hemphill. Then there’s Admiral Theisman, Admiral Tourville, Admiral Yu, and High Admiral Yanakov for the foreign contingent.”
“I suppose that’s true,” Elizabeth agreed with a smile, not mentioning the one flag officer Rivka hadn’t named and who was not going to be in uniform. Honor Alexander-Harrington had agreed to serve as one of Rivka Rosenfeld’s matrons of honor, but she would be present in her persona as Steadholder Harrington, not Admiral Harrington.
Well, technically she’ll also be present as Duchess Harrington, I suppose, Elizabeth thought. On the other hand—
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by kzt   » Mon May 30, 2016 9:00 pm

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11360
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

cthia wrote:The Mandarins? They can deliver a miracle to themselves - with the overall best interest of the League, you see. "The needs of the many"... yatta yatta yatta...

I doubt it. They would be getting all blown up too.
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by cthia   » Mon May 30, 2016 9:35 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

kzt wrote:
cthia wrote:The Mandarins? They can deliver a miracle to themselves - with the overall best interest of the League, you see. "The needs of the many"... yatta yatta yatta...

I doubt it. They would be getting all blown up too.

Not if they arranged for themselves to be fashionably late to the party because they were all aboard a ship in space doing... whatever.

A kinetic strike against their own government to decapitate their civilian command structure would be genius. That would leave them in charge to take the gorilla by the gonads.

Because they themselves set it up, they can make it look as much like the Manties as possible. The resultant atrocities - though self inflicted - would be a rallying cry for the League's Phoenix to rise up from the ashes. If they can then inevitably bury the GA, the truth of the actual perpetrators would forever remain buried as well.

And there would be so many points around which to rally the troops - other than the dead bodies from the cold-blooded killings. "It has always been the duty of the League's to enforce the Edict, when committed against US - it is imperative!"

The Mandarins can engineer their own turning point.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by Sigs   » Mon May 30, 2016 11:29 pm

Sigs
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1485
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:09 pm

cthia wrote:Not if they arranged for themselves to be fashionably late to the party because they were all aboard a ship in space doing... whatever.

A kinetic strike against their own government to decapitate their civilian command structure would be genius. That would leave them in charge to take the gorilla by the gonads.

Because they themselves set it up, they can make it look as much like the Manties as possible. The resultant atrocities - though self inflicted - would be a rallying cry for the League's Phoenix to rise up from the ashes. If they can then inevitably bury the GA, the truth of the actual perpetrators would forever remain buried as well.

And there would be so many points around which to rally the troops - other than the dead bodies from the cold-blooded killings. "It has always been the duty of the League's to enforce the Edict, when committed against US - it is imperative!"

The Mandarins can engineer their own turning point.


What happens when the GA finds itself with it's back against the wall? As much as I think the GA wants to conduct the war as "painless" as possible for the majority of the League members, what do you think happens if despite everything they do they get blamed for an atrocity like that and the League unites?

I don't know about you, but in their place I would much rather beat the league into bloody submission rather than letting them destroy me.


And that doesn't even consider what many of the League members will think. So far the GA has not attacked any shell or core worlds, they have kept war on honorable even when the SLN has not. Why would the GA with its tremendous technological advantage resort to what would amount to genocidal hit and run? Many of those same systems that want to leave the league may ask more questions and come to the wrong conclusion.
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by kzt   » Mon May 30, 2016 11:38 pm

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11360
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Sigs wrote:I don't know about you, but in their place I would much rather beat the league into bloody submission rather than letting them destroy me.

Can they? Exactly how will you pull that off, considering that you need to leave at least 1/2 the RMN at home (and I'd strongly suggest not uncovering Haven either) to avoid the MA coming back.

And that doesn't even consider what many of the League members will think. So far the GA has not attacked any shell or core worlds, they have kept war on honorable even when the SLN has not. Why would the GA with its tremendous technological advantage resort to what would amount to genocidal hit and run? Many of those same systems that want to leave the league may ask more questions and come to the wrong conclusion.

You haven't recently read what David has said the general impression (deliberately provided by the SLs media) the people of the SL have about the Neobarbarians like Manticore, have you? Can you name one SL character who likes Manticore?
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by cthia   » Tue May 31, 2016 1:10 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

I can't think of a single reason to EE violate Haven or Grayson - although, if the MA would get wind of Bolthole's location, "Guess who's coming to dinner?"

Lenny!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by kzt   » Tue May 31, 2016 1:26 am

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11360
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

cthia wrote:I can't think of a single reason to EE violate Haven or Grayson - although, if the MA would get wind of Bolthole's location, "Guess who's coming to dinner?"

Have a couple of squadrons of LDs drop out of steath within energy range of Haven or Manticore as all the orbital defenses and warships get torn apart by SD grasers.

The war is OVER.
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by Annachie   » Tue May 31, 2016 5:02 am

Annachie
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3099
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

Machiavelli would be proud.

Bolt hole though wouldn't be a violation as it sounds like a purely military target.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by SharkHunter   » Tue May 31, 2016 5:11 am

SharkHunter
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1608
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:53 pm
Location: Independence, Missouri

--snipping--
Kytheros wrote:
kzt wrote:There are two big problems with that. First, it won't break up the SL and more than Al Qaeda bringing down the WTC brought down the US government. So it will produce a result 100% counter to their plans. There might be some people who would want this, but they are not the MA.

Second, it won't stand up to detailed investigation.

Concur completely.

Along with the first point, attacking Old Chicago with an EE violation would be a rallying point to pull the League together in such a way that it would actually work. And, it's been quite clear that the MAlign wants the League to break apart, and is engaging in operations to make that happen.
While I don't disagree, from an "optimality" standpoint, it's been argued that an EE violation is the one thing guaranteed to "bring the SL together". So to cthia's original point, my proposal as "easy" is as follows:
#1
The MAlign is currently on the run, targeted by Manticore. They need to keep the GA busy while they do hidey-hole plus finish Darius attack forces.

#2
For the sake of argument, let's assume that a strike on Old Chicago is done by demanding the surrender of the planet first, and then the deliberate hit, and that at least one of the Mandarins is off planet or gets far enough out of blast range.

#3
The SLN is the only thing really keeping the Verge in check, so getting a big chunk of the SLN engaged in whacking Manticore [which isn't goint to work] is "little lever big effect" in dismantling everything. End of that story, not much SLN left.

#4
Suppose while all that is going on, enough of the Darius ships are available to target the ships maintaining the blockade of the wormhole network captured during Lacoon II?

Okay.... shred liberally. Considering that RFC gets to change all of our minds as soon as SoV is out in eARC form. [Drools...]
---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
Top
Re: MA: Most Optimal Kinetic Strike Targets
Post by darrell   » Tue May 31, 2016 6:50 am

darrell
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1390
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:57 am

SharkHunter wrote:--snipping--
Kytheros wrote:Concur completely.

Along with the first point, attacking Old Chicago with an EE violation would be a rallying point to pull the League together in such a way that it would actually work. And, it's been quite clear that the MAlign wants the League to break apart, and is engaging in operations to make that happen.
While I don't disagree, from an "optimality" standpoint, it's been argued that an EE violation is the one thing guaranteed to "bring the SL together". So to cthia's original point, my proposal as "easy" is as follows:
#1
The MAlign is currently on the run, targeted by Manticore. They need to keep the GA busy while they do hidey-hole plus finish Darius attack forces.

#2
For the sake of argument, let's assume that a strike on Old Chicago is done by demanding the surrender of the planet first, and then the deliberate hit, and that at least one of the Mandarins is off planet or gets far enough out of blast range.

#3
The SLN is the only thing really keeping the Verge in check, so getting a big chunk of the SLN engaged in whacking Manticore [which isn't goint to work] is "little lever big effect" in dismantling everything. End of that story, not much SLN left.

#4
Suppose while all that is going on, enough of the Darius ships are available to target the ships maintaining the blockade of the wormhole network captured during Lacoon II?

Okay.... shred liberally. Considering that RFC gets to change all of our minds as soon as SoV is out in eARC form. [Drools...]


why is everyone insisting that the EE violation has to happen to earth for it to be effective?

it could be an EE violation to ANY core world that would bring the SL back togeather. (if the SLN captain and crew manages to keep their mouths shut?)

Or better yet, how about have the malign or the mandarins do an EE violation on Mesa?
<><><><><><><><><><><><>
Logic: an organized way to go wrong, with confidence.
Top

Return to Honorverse