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Hyperspace missile pod.

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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by Kytheros   » Tue May 24, 2016 5:50 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
Annachie wrote:Actually I can see a point.

The clasic wormhole assault.


It is explicitly stated that there has never been a successful unmanned transit of a wormhole. RFC has also explicitly stated there will NOT be any remote-control or autonomous attack systems in the Honorverse.

Eh ... an unmanned transit probably should, in theory, be doable if you have up-to-date charts of the terminus.
It'd probably be riskier than a standard transit, but if you're throwing an unmanned platform through a wormhole assault, it's expendable almost by definition.
Plus, IIRC, it's standard practice for Astro Control to remote-operate merchant and most other civilian ships through their transits. Or at least, something like that was implied somewhere.


But wormhole transit assaults are really the only point where an autonomous hypercapable weapons system could be worth the risks involved. And I suspect it's more likely that it's such a special circumstance and niche role that even if you could build them, you probably wouldn't bother, as there are doubtless more important and more useful things to dedicate resources to - like building actual warships.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue May 24, 2016 8:16 am

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Kytheros wrote:Plus, IIRC, it's standard practice for Astro Control to remote-operate merchant and most other civilian ships through their transits. Or at least, something like that was implied somewhere.
I thought I remembered something like that as well, but when I ran down the quote I was thinking of it didn't quite say that.
War of Honor: Ch 54 wrote:Lieutenant Commander Sybil Dalipagic watched the data code of the Silesian Confederacy diplomatic courier blink out of existence as it disappeared into the Junction's central terminus on its way to Basilisk. As she'd informed Starlight's astrogator, the dispatch boat's flight path had been nominal, but that hadn't kept her from sweating the transit, anyway. Diplomatic couriers were the one type of vessel with which Astro Control could not establish direct telemetry links. Dalipagic shuddered to think what would have happened if she'd even suggested to Starlight that she could have handled the entire transit much more safely and efficiently from her own console. The very idea would have violated at least half a dozen solemn interstellar accords, although in Dalipagic's professional opinion, those solemn accords were pretty damned stupid. It wasn't as if establishing an interface and an override with the ship's maneuvering computers would have in any way compromised the sacred integrity of its diplomatic files.
Though I guess the distinction between "monitor and override if you do something wrong" and "remote control" is pretty minor; in a practical sense.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by Lord Skimper   » Tue May 24, 2016 10:00 am

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If all you want to do is disable a worm hole all you need do is send through a large quantity of ships, freighters or cargo barges. In all likelihood you own the other side and can send a ship or 36 through remotely just like Terminus control already does. 36 Wayfarer sized Q ships firing their Grasers torpedo grazer heads, upon transit, hidden behind access doors which they blast through. Such a transit looking for all intents like a bothersome attack of just killing the terminus for a few hours. Barges detonate and fire at everything in graser range.

Hyperspace Missile pod would be to Attack from out of the Hyper limit not in it. Graser torpedo's would work so much better for a terminus attack. You can't use a wedge in the terminus. A Spider drive should work fine though. A set of 24 detweilers or so should shut down a terminus and spring a fort on fort battle.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by Lord Skimper   » Tue May 24, 2016 10:08 am

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If all you want to do is disable a worm hole all you need do is send through a large quantity of ships, freighters or cargo barges. In all likelihood you own the other side and can send a ship or 36 through remotely just like Terminus control already does. 36 Wayfarer sized Q ships firing their Grasers torpedo grazer heads, upon transit, hidden behind access doors which they blast through. Such a transit looking for all intents like a bothersome attack of just killing the terminus for a few hours. Barges detonate and fire at everything in graser range.

Hyperspace Missile pod would be to Attack from out of the Hyper limit not in it. Graser torpedo's would work so much better for a terminus attack. You can't use a wedge in the terminus. A Spider drive should work fine though. A set of 24 detweilers or so should shut down a terminus and spring a fort on fort battle.


Or 1 10 Mton Barge with a 1000 graser torpedo heads could attack and damage anything on the other side. Followed by a second and third and then SD Attack force.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue May 24, 2016 11:15 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:
If all you want to do is disable a worm hole all you need do is send through a large quantity of ships, freighters or cargo barges. In all likelihood you own the other side and can send a ship or 36 through remotely just like Terminus control already does. 36 Wayfarer sized Q ships firing their Grasers torpedo grazer heads, upon transit, hidden behind access doors which they blast through. Such a transit looking for all intents like a bothersome attack of just killing the terminus for a few hours. Barges detonate and fire at everything in graser range.

Hyperspace Missile pod would be to Attack from out of the Hyper limit not in it. Graser torpedo's would work so much better for a terminus attack. You can't use a wedge in the terminus. A Spider drive should work fine though. A set of 24 detweilers or so should shut down a terminus and spring a fort on fort battle.


Or 1 10 Mton Barge with a 1000 graser torpedo heads could attack and damage anything on the other side. Followed by a second and third and then SD Attack force.

Except that since the advent of laserheads nobody parks anything but mines within energy range of a terminus. I don't care if you magically fit 10 billion graser torpedo heads into your 'wormhole assault ship' - there's nothing in range for them to shoot, but the ship is lying helpless without wedges or sidewalls while getting pummled by laser heads and mines.

You have to use sails to move clear of the grav turbulence 'lane' before you can bring up your wedge, or sidewalls, or launch missiles. The entry / departure lanes for wormholes are basically like spots where grav waves punch through into n-space. So just like in a grav wave you're limited to what weapons you can use; and depending on the wormhole strength and the size of the ship that can take anywhere from (IIRC) 45 seconds to 5+ minutes.
But unlike a grav wave the 'lane' is narrower twice than the standoff range of a laserhead. So you can't use missiles against the defenders, but they can use missiles against you.


Assaulting through a reasonably defended wormhole, after the widespread adoption of laserheads, is just an expensive way to commit suicide.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by Theemile   » Tue May 24, 2016 11:20 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:
Or 1 10 Mton Barge with a 1000 graser torpedo heads could attack and damage anything on the other side. Followed by a second and third and then SD Attack force.


The only problem with a MOUNTED Graser torp head is it is self immolating - and takes the carrier vessel with it. Firing a couple dozen - or thousand - would be a suicide mission.

Also it would only work against a 1875 defense. That era of defense had bomb pumped mines and independent energy weapons platforms, in addition to energy heavy forts.

A 1900 defense includes laserhead missiles - an advanced laserhead allows enough standoff that it can cover the entire diameter of the emergence lane, reducing the dependence on disposable and endangered platforms. Manned platforms would sit far enough back that enemy energy weapons couldn't pierce it's sidewalls, but it's energy weapons could rip into the unprotected intruders at will.

A Modern Manty defense has little or nothing inside of energy range, with pod based MDMs allowing quick arriving salvos of laserheads to overwhelm any intruders in the emergence lane.

So like many other ideas, this one is one whose time came and went before it was conceived.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue May 24, 2016 11:25 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:Given that Hyperspace needs a Hyperspace drive. And this requires size, a wedge and W Sails. One might consider a special Attack system. A guided Missile pod with many missiles. Consider it the MDM version of the Graser torpedo.

Take a Keyhole I or II system. Remove some of its relay links, ship to keyhole. Add a hyperspace drive, Keyhole with added AI fire control, Preprogrammed targets plus opportunity. Warshawski sails, Wedge, Lots of fire control. Crash out of hyperspace, fire the carried MDM, how many? 20-100? plus 4-12 Apollo. wait the five minutes for the hyperspace to recharge then jump back into hyperspace. Waiting for the missiles to hit if possible.

MDM have the range to hit any in system target. The HSMP is quite small and while the missiles will be detected they are Apollo controlled by the best system. The Keyhole will accelerate at 5000G and being outside the limit can jump out of harm at any time. Can also jump back in. Reuseable rearm in a safe rendezvous in space, return to continue the attack. Add a hyperspace relay with a number of autonomous Ghost Rider platforms, picking targets.

GA Oysterbay.


Sounds more like oyster chowder to me... how would a target be identified??
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by drothgery   » Tue May 24, 2016 1:56 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:Sounds more like oyster chowder to me... how would a target be identified??

It's Skimper. He's the reason why I know how to add someone to my ignore list here.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by MaxxQ   » Tue May 24, 2016 3:29 pm

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drothgery wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:Sounds more like oyster chowder to me... how would a target be identified??

It's Skimper. He's the reason why I know how to add someone to my ignore list here.


Ditto. The only reason I know some of what he writes is because people keep quoting him.
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Re: Hyperspace missile pod.
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Wed May 25, 2016 8:52 am

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drothgery wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:Sounds more like oyster chowder to me... how would a target be identified??

It's Skimper. He's the reason why I know how to add someone to my ignore list here.


I know that some of my questions and comments are "from the hip" or "off the wall" but I hope not to earn my way onto an ignore list ;-)
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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