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Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities

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Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by Somtaaw   » Sat May 21, 2016 5:20 pm

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Ok, so during another rereading of the series, between Flag in Exile and Echoes of Honor, neither Honor nor Benjamin went anywhere without at least one personal armsman. Andrew LaFollet was always around Honor, even if she was simply moving from one office to another. And Benjamin always had Sparky in the room with him as well, although we usually don't see reference to Benjamin without there being someone coming to meet with him, so that could be a throwaway.


However, as I'm reading Ashes, Lord Mueller prior to meeting Baird and Kennedy was alone in his 'real' office, until his steward came to announce their presence. He instructs his steward to go put them in his fancy office, and which Armsman to leave to keep an eye on them, and cleans up his working office. He leaves (without an armsman), and goes into the room where only Hughes was watching the guests. Later on, Mueller is ambushed by the same Baird and Kennedy, again with only one Armsman and held at gunpoint to be forced into giving the memory stones to the Queen and Prime Minister.

So, Honor goes around, everywhere no matter whether she owns the building or not, with at the very least Andrew, if not her full three-man team. This despite the fact, that later on, she tries to go more discrete, particularly during the High Ridge government, rather than providing ammunition for politicial 'look how Admiral Lady Harrington goes around with bodyguards to show off her importance' accusations. Benjamin always has his personal armsman, even when meeting Honor for various reasons and times... but Mueller casually walks around his own home without any armsman, and even sends the one away to ensure guests leave without wandering.

Anybody else struck by how odd that seems to be? Especially since prior to being held at gunpoint, Lord Mueller had been described as "leading the push" to force Armsmen onto both of Honor's siblings, when they still thought Honor was dead, despite Allison NOT wanting that to happen just yet. I'm also sure I'll catch a few more oddities like this.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by munroburton   » Sat May 21, 2016 5:37 pm

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Having a number of zero for assassination attempts, Mueller could get away without a close protection detail, especially in the heart of his steading.

Honor certainly can't claim a zero for that. And there have been occasions when Andrew let her have a room to herself and a guest. Usually Hamish.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by Somtaaw   » Sat May 21, 2016 6:21 pm

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munroburton wrote:Having a number of zero for assassination attempts, Mueller could get away without a close protection detail, especially in the heart of his steading.

Honor certainly can't claim a zero for that. And there have been occasions when Andrew let her have a room to herself and a guest. Usually Hamish.


It did take her years to 'train' Andrew into doing that though, early on he was pretty stubborn about his duties. And even then, he only seems to do it with a bare handful of people, the inner circles.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by Somtaaw   » Sun May 22, 2016 9:30 am

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Another thing I found, late in Honor Among Enemies, and early Flag in Exile, Grayson law specifies Steadholders must be accompanied at all times by their personal armsmen. This caused that minor anxiety with Honor because Benjamin had also sent a request to his Ambassador to Manticore, which caused Queen Elizabeth to change Manticoran law to allow Honow to keep armed retainers aboard ship.


However, that still means, someone like Lord Mueller, prior to being executed for treason, was in an oddity. If he truly wanted to keep the laws, he'd keep his armsmen around because they are a show of his authority. Rather like how Cordelia Ransom strutted around Barnett, they were a display, not out of any real fear (or concern) of being attacked.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by munroburton   » Sun May 22, 2016 11:10 am

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Mueller was also up to his neck in illegalities. Not just the Masadan/Haven connection that led to the attempted assassination of Elizabeth and Benjamin, but also the earlier incidents with Burdette.

He also flew a lot lower as far as public perception was concerned. Merely one of the eighty steadholders, who rarely left their steadings. Consider that with the kind of media attention Honor gets everywhere on Grayson.

Honor also had her Steadholder's Guard dumped onto her by Palace Security. Mueller was able to build his Guard to his personal specifications over the long years he had been Steadholder.

Are you really that surprised Mueller was a hypocrite in addition to being a criminal and a traitor?
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by Somtaaw   » Sun May 22, 2016 3:34 pm

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munroburton wrote:Mueller was also up to his neck in illegalities. Not just the Masadan/Haven connection that led to the attempted assassination of Elizabeth and Benjamin, but also the earlier incidents with Burdette.

He also flew a lot lower as far as public perception was concerned. Merely one of the eighty steadholders, who rarely left their steadings. Consider that with the kind of media attention Honor gets everywhere on Grayson.

Honor also had her Steadholder's Guard dumped onto her by Palace Security. Mueller was able to build his Guard to his personal specifications over the long years he had been Steadholder.

Are you really that surprised Mueller was a hypocrite in addition to being a criminal and a traitor?


No, but you pointed out why I'm rather puzzled. He built his guard, to his desires, for years. Yet he still didn't have any armsmen that would simply serve him; regardless of whatever actions, legal or otherwise, that he might have to send them away to not hear.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by munroburton   » Sun May 22, 2016 5:29 pm

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Somtaaw wrote:
munroburton wrote:Mueller was also up to his neck in illegalities. Not just the Masadan/Haven connection that led to the attempted assassination of Elizabeth and Benjamin, but also the earlier incidents with Burdette.

He also flew a lot lower as far as public perception was concerned. Merely one of the eighty steadholders, who rarely left their steadings. Consider that with the kind of media attention Honor gets everywhere on Grayson.

Honor also had her Steadholder's Guard dumped onto her by Palace Security. Mueller was able to build his Guard to his personal specifications over the long years he had been Steadholder.

Are you really that surprised Mueller was a hypocrite in addition to being a criminal and a traitor?


No, but you pointed out why I'm rather puzzled. He built his guard, to his desires, for years. Yet he still didn't have any armsmen that would simply serve him; regardless of whatever actions, legal or otherwise, that he might have to send them away to not hear.


Ah, got you now. I suppose he may have had those sort of armsmen available, but I still think it stands up from the big picture perspective. After his dealings with Burdette led to the crushing of those children, he might have thought it wise to minimise all possible risks.

Also, amoral sociopaths don't make good bodyguards. Someone like Denver Summervale might not blink at your treasonous plottings, but wouldn't take that bullet for you. Whereas an Andrew LaFollet would take that bullet(and then some), but would have qualms regarding regicide.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by Somtaaw   » Sun May 22, 2016 5:56 pm

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This is true, however I think it was either Miranda LaFollet, or Abigail, in one or another conversations that mentioned something about (paraphrased) "Steadholders are highly respected, and their actions are generally above judgement." Because of the paraphrasing, I know it's hard to find the exact conversation where this came up, unless someone else happens to remember that general concept coming up.

But, short of outright treason, which Burdette did but Mueller sort of skirted it's edges, then Armsmen would seem to follow a "he's my Steadholder, and I shouldn't judge his actions or choices" mentality. Especially with that other legal standing, which is how Honor snuck her Armsman through Peep capture as "Marines". That's in regards to how Armsmen received commissions in the Grayson Army, with the theory being the Protector could "call to duty" a rebellious Steadholders Armsmen and deprive him of their service. Except a 'rebellious' Steadholder isn't far from "breaking the law", unless it's the Protector breaking the law, in either case one side or another has Armsmen following the illegal orders of authority.


With that much precedent, only the extreme treason, such as what Burdette did when he tried to assassinate Honor, or when Mueller was finally blackmailed into sneaking the IFF beacon 'memory stones' to Elizabeth and Cromarty, might have triggered an Armsman to start thinking 'maybe I should not be doing this'. Anything less, and they'd simply close their eyes and ears, and simply think their Steadholder knows best.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by Rincewind   » Sun May 22, 2016 6:19 pm

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In Flag in Exile Mueller also instructed one of his armsmen to send a team (or teams) into Burdette Steading to assassinate Marchant & the other members of the conspiracy in an effort to tie up loose ends that could point to him. Apparently they did it without any qualms or hesitations.
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Re: Steadholders and their Armsmen oddities
Post by kzt   » Sun May 22, 2016 6:28 pm

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IIRC, Armsmen were not liable for actions taken per direct orders.
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