cthia wrote:Whaa? Derail? Are you kidding me? The GA literally can't get bearings to the astrogators fast enough to plug into their hyper drives and pay them a visit and "obliterate" them! How's that for derailing the plans - by attritively killing the planners?
Are their minimal goals met - absolutely? SEE BELOW.
The Alignment always had to factor in the possibility that Beowulf would get wise to its existence and would try to mobilize against it, which is why Darius exists.
Also, none of the planners have been killed or captured yet, and given the realities of Honorverse military actions, it is unlikely that they all will be.
"And," again? Now, surely you jest!
They may not need them to be dead right now. But if an opportunity to destroy them by indirect means is present, and whereby the chance of any other opportunity and means to destroy them may never arise or present itself in time may be enough of a reason in itself to "order up a contingent."
And no, I don't think the MAlign are stupid - insane is another question - as most megalomaniacs who are hell bent at controlling human kind and playing god, are quickly approaching insanity. You can't allow a society where everyone has the inherent mindset of a Hitler - where they are genengineering baby hitlers!
Yeah, see, that's where you're kinda wrong. That whole rhetoric is exactly what Beowulf has been spouting for centuries, and in the process, they've locked humanity into a status quo that is holding it back. The Beowulf code has created an orthodoxy that no longer serves any purpose; sure, the Final War was horrible and the scrags were a mistake, but look at the Harringtons and Wintons of the world! How much better, how much more intelligent, could humanity be if research was allowed to go deeper than it currently can?
What is left in the wake of the Malign's own meddling are more powerful than the US and its allied powers vs Germany! Sure, the MAlign could just lay low and go, "Uh oh what have we created. What have we done?" And allow the GA to discover and destroy them. They've already shown that they cannot control the abominations that may become the fruit of their genetic tampering - it has already produced an unforeseen and very unpredictable and very powerful virus in the form of the "GA."
You're mixing imagery here that doesn't actually work. The Alignment has not lost control of its creations, on the contrary. Its creations are doing just fine.
That's the point that you're missing. They are having to run now. When they fled Mesa, that was planned, staged. Now, the GA may force another relocation. May force them to show themselves - possibly expose themselves - they could get caught in the wake of their own fleeing hyper wash! My point is that things have drastically changed for the MAlign now. Whereas before they were hiding, now they may be running. Their cat of "we exist" is already out of the bag. To think that they have the same options as they previously enjoyed is idiotic. Things went very AWRY in their plans. SEE BELOW.
You ... have read the books, yes? You are aware that the Renaissance Factor exists, yes? There's your ready-made bolthole right there.
Darius has, effectively, served its purpose. It can be abandoned safely, because the Alignment's strength is not in its starships or soldiers, but in its philosophy and science.
And I'm getting the feeling that you in turn, are failing to realize that the MAlign has made their own chances of ever realizing those objectives to be even smaller than when they decided that it was the League who is their biggest mountain. But oh no!, now, they have awakened an entity who is in addition to that, much more militarily powerful than the League with the formation of this GA, who ARE aware of them and who they have given great cause to HATE and want to DESTROY them because they have "gone and done" the one exactly wrong thing to do in these situations with an enemy, and made it PERSONAL. Quite personal! And also to millions of screaming treecats in their souls and in their Soul of Steel's soul.
And because the GA has a strong emotional drive behind them to find and punish the people behind Oyster Bay, they can be misled. They can be given sacrificial assets. Sooner or later, they will declare mission accomplished. Look at it this way: The Renaissance Factor is the next step in the Alignment's plans. What possible reason does the GA have to investigate them? What reason does it have to assault them that would hold up in the galaxies' public opinion?
Because Alignment survival is a joke, a wet dream at best. That's a given.
You do realize, that "ushering in a new age of humanity" that isn't human is the fear! Don't you? Never mind that it may seem that they've managed to get it right a few times. That's not the fear. It is the act of them playing with fire that is the fear. Manipulating genetic code in the manner that they do is deemed too risky. The MAlign, though they may be more knowledgeable and have successfully [maybe] pushed the limits (simply by trial and error and most probably a few really bad genetic mishaps that are simply unpublished) are NOT gods. They don't understand all of what is awaiting them down the road of a society that has no checks & balances and fences in place of genetic tampering. They cannot displace the atrocities forever set in the memories of the survivors of the Final Wars. The MAlign's entire mission statement is to introduce Helter Skelter within mankind. Insane actually, as they have already shown the dangers of wielding their powers. With their Hitler like (*Godwin's Law n/a) mission of galactic control of the "natural" direction of humankind.
That's the Beowulfan orthodoxy speaking again. They, and you, do not have a monopoly on being right.
For example, Prolong only came along in the past 100 years or so. Is that what the rest of humanity has to accept? Some approved tweak coming out of Beowulf every few centuries? One that, as it stands, is incredibly costly and thus only available to those fortunate enough to be born rich or be born in a polity that decided to expend billions into making the treatments available for everyone?
If experimentation on a larger, more radical scale were possible, how much more could have been done?
And what's with all this fear of the nonhuman? It's a large galaxy out there, there's enough room for everyone.
Beowulf has to die? That is the kind of thinking expected to be unleashed on humankind from misengineered minds and a poster child for why it's a no no. The MAlign are MAlignant. Their steroidal tampering of the genetic code has already clearly affected and as a result has misaligned their cognizant functions.
Nah, that's just good old religious indoctrination. Humans have been doing that for ages already.
They must clearly die!
And they themselves have broadcast their necessary death to the three most powerful navies in the galaxy at large and have caused them to coalesce to survive and to see their manipulators become genetically dead. In what way is that better for them and smells of their minimum goals being accomplished?
Because the Alignment has already won. I've argued this in the past. Whatever the new status quo will be when the dust settles, the death-grip Beowulf has on the evolution of humanity will be lifted.
And exactly how can the MAlign create that environment if they are dead before the next crucial phase in their plans if they are fleshed out? How is simply changing the face of their biggest enemy with a different but more determined countenance, who have been slapped in the face by their very hand be acceptable?
Because the GA has no interest in becoming the League 2.0.
And how are creating people, who are not just victims of crime incidentally - but victims of your crime a good thing? It is the same age old moral dilemma associated with Earth today "why can't we directly experiment on people in order to quickly benefit mankind with medical breakthroughs?" Yet we can't because it is morally wrong. It wasn't, isn't allowed even with volunteers. Heck, we argue about animals being used in certain experiments today. So, as long as that mindset is the norm, and it is. And as long as your most powerful mouthpieces against you are alive and well and enforce and share that same mindset, and they are and they do, then how is it ever going to work? To think it is, is insane.
Not any more insane than any other religious belief, really.
There would not be any prejudices against the slaves, but against the crime that made them so. It isn't the people, but the methods. Who knows what, still yet unseen, physical and emotional atrocities MAlign science has already introduced into humanity who are not yet aware of, or published, or has yet to manifest itself. Checks and balances are there for a profound purpose. Beowulf had a conscience. You cannot afford to allow the god-complex to thrive. It is everything foreign to humanity. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. There comes a point where your abilities out paces your understanding. (Which is the same idea wrapped up in "Star Trek's Prime Directive" in a nutshell.)
And Beowulf's insistence that they be the arbiters of what is and isn't allowed to happen to humanity is any better? Again, what if they're wrong? Why is their viewpoint so much better that it has to be enforced by law and force of arms? Why are nations and cultures not free to make their own decisions in this regard?
Fundamentally, this is all an argument about freedom of expression. Why should Beowulf's continued censorship be accepted?
