Roland Peacetime duties

I keep thinking a Kammerling and Roland should be combined. One does the missile boat perfectly, the other does the marines perfectly. Put a Roland missile hammerhead on a Kammerling ship body... Kammerling speed is very good 95% of Roland. Kammerlings use the conventional ER light missiles, eliminate all of these tubes and ammo stores. Their Hammerheads are about the same size as the Roland Hammerhead. Obviously this would need a full redesign but it solves all the problems.

Perhaps the 50 or so Rolands and 50 or so Kammerling should be docked in a Silesian shipyard and rebuilt into 50 - 100 Kammerlands, Rolings?

Lord Skimper wrote:I keep thinking a Kammerling and Roland should be combined. One does the missile boat perfectly, the other does the marines perfectly. Put a Roland missile hammerhead on a Kammerling ship body... Kammerling speed is very good 95% of Roland. Kammerlings use the conventional ER light missiles, eliminate all of these tubes and ammo stores. Their Hammerheads are about the same size as the Roland Hammerhead. Obviously this would need a full redesign but it solves all the problems.

Perhaps the 50 or so Rolands and 50 or so Kammerling should be docked in a Silesian shipyard and rebuilt into 50 - 100 Kammerlands, Rolings?

Wouldn't happen, that's more or less the same as "well why not take all those SLN SD's, and a whole bunch of Manticore's technology and..." scenarios.

To make your base idea more viable, and actually not a stretch to believe would work. Roland's would always operate in conjunction with Kamerlings, to make a 'complete squadron'.

It's not a fully proper squadron, because you're trying to merge destroyers with a light cruiser. But it's functionally identical to how the Prince Consort class, was specifically designed to built to work in conjunction with the Crusader class.

Somtaaw wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:I keep thinking a Kammerling and Roland should be combined. One does the missile boat perfectly, the other does the marines perfectly. Put a Roland missile hammerhead on a Kammerling ship body... Kammerling speed is very good 95% of Roland. Kammerlings use the conventional ER light missiles, eliminate all of these tubes and ammo stores. Their Hammerheads are about the same size as the Roland Hammerhead. Obviously this would need a full redesign but it solves all the problems.

Perhaps the 50 or so Rolands and 50 or so Kammerling should be docked in a Silesian shipyard and rebuilt into 50 - 100 Kammerlands, Rolings?

Wouldn't happen, that's more or less the same as "well why not take all those SLN SD's, and a whole bunch of Manticore's technology and..." scenarios.

To make your base idea more viable, and actually not a stretch to believe would work. Roland's would always operate in conjunction with Kamerlings, to make a 'complete squadron'.

It's not a fully proper squadron, because you're trying to merge destroyers with a light cruiser. But it's functionally identical to how the Prince Consort class, was specifically designed to built to work in conjunction with the Crusader class.

Well, the Roland is really a light cruiser too. It was just called a destroyer to give it a lower profile.

fester wrote:Disagree with you here. In peacetime, the fleet splits into two major elements. Core striking forces/high end war fighters and the dispersed commerce protection/flag showers/colonial gunboat duties.

fester wrote:...They [Rolands] can't easily do all of the other things that a light escort needs to do in peacetime,

I'm not suggesting that they do "all of the other things," just convoy escort/commerce protection -- where they can operate in division strength. Their small crews and long-range missiles mean they can escort convoys with less drain on manning for the rest of the Navy.

They have the Flag Deck that can be used for VIP or Marine quarters if necessary, but for those long, slow, boring, convoy escort duty, low manning numbers and the reach to replace the coverage of four to six Wolfhounds make Rolands the most economical convoy escort available.

Rolands may be less ideal for solos anti-piracy patrols and other garrison duties, but with the Flag Decks utilized as Marine Quarters and operating in pairs, or division strength, they would have everything needed for commerce protection patrols from nodal bases.

So the final verdict is, The best hyper capable escort from a Man / Crew level cost to fire power. It also makes a great, with its sensors, spy or observation ship. It doesn't do typical Destroyer duties. Perhaps it should be called an escort destroyer. It could be a great mini fort (turret) or tower, with a hyperspace capability. I suppose it is the HAC that the MWW said he didn't want. Bazinga!

Bill Woods wrote: Well, the Roland is really a light cruiser too. It was just called a destroyer to give it a lower profile.

No, the Roland-class are called destroyers because they're intended to perform the traditional role of a destroyer. Their tonnage has nothing to do with it.

Dafmeister wrote:

Bill Woods wrote: Well, the Roland is really a light cruiser too. It was just called a destroyer to give it a lower profile.

No, the Roland-class are called destroyers because they're intended to perform the traditional role of a destroyer. Their tonnage has nothing to do with it.

I remember reading somewhere -- in House of Steel? -- that the Roland design was called a destroyer to keep it under the radar during the Janacek era. Same way the Saganami-C was sold as merely a modification of the original Saganami-class design, despite being entirely different. Or the RL Japanese have the Hyūga-class "helicopter destroyers", that any other navy would call light aircraft carriers.

Bill Woods wrote:I remember reading somewhere -- in House of Steel? -- that the Roland design was called a destroyer to keep it under the radar during the Janacek era. Same way the Saganami-C was sold as merely a modification of the original Saganami-class design, despite being entirely different. Or the RL Japanese have the Hyūga-class "helicopter destroyers", that any other navy would call light aircraft carriers.

The Roland doesn't have any Marines. I'm sure there are a few other design philosophies that a light cruiser has, which a Roland does not. It doesn't tick enough 'mission capabilities' boxes to be called a light cruiser.

The thing to keep in mind is the Roland is the smallest warship which can mount DDMs(and it does this with vulnerable chase launchers only). The Sag-C is the smallest warship which can mount a double broadside of DDM launchers.

RFC has also floated the concept of a ~300kton CL, eventually replacing all CL/DDs when multi-drive missiles become used by everyone else.

munroburton wrote:RFC has also floated the concept of a ~300kton CL, eventually replacing all CL/DDs when multi-drive missiles become used by everyone else.

... though more recently he's suggested that the smallest useful hyper-capable warship for a first-tier navy may well be in the Sag-C range.

drothgery wrote:

munroburton wrote:RFC has also floated the concept of a ~300kton CL, eventually replacing all CL/DDs when multi-drive missiles become used by everyone else.

... though more recently he's suggested that the smallest useful hyper-capable warship for a first-tier navy may well be in the Sag-C range.

Yes, the Sag-C is pretty much the minimum size for a first-tier naval combatant with DDM or MDM capability in the destroyer or light cruiser role. The destroyer in its current configuration (SDM) and size may or may not continue in service as a secondary combatant. I would expect to see a new ship with DDM's in the heavy cruiser role, probably around the the size of the Reliant or Warlord classes to fill in the gap between the Sag-C and the current Nike class BCs.