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Roland Peacetime duties

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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by munroburton   » Tue May 03, 2016 2:44 pm

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Skimper has reinvented just about every ship class twice. I believe he's referring to an escort carrier CLAC variant built on the Agamemmnon hull platform.

It doesn't actually exist.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue May 03, 2016 3:01 pm

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Sigs wrote:Isn't Agamemnon a BC or am I mistaking?


Skimpy thinks that all BC(P)s be converted to "escort CLACs" with a bare squadron of LACS for commerce protection.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by saber964   » Tue May 03, 2016 5:33 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Sigs wrote:Isn't Agamemnon a BC or am I mistaking?


Skimpy thinks that all BC(P)s be converted to "escort CLACs" with a bare squadron of LACS for commerce protection.



If you want an escort CLAC, do what they did during WWII convert or purpose build on merchant hulls. Like what they did in WWII was have naval guard teams that were onboard merchants to maintain all of the guns onboard and operate the larger 3 and 5 inch guns and train the ships crew to operate the .50 cal and 20 mm guns. The Commencement Bay and Casablanca class CVE's used the hulls of Liberty and Victory ships. In the Honorverse you could do much the same thing.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by darrell   » Tue May 03, 2016 5:45 pm

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saber964 wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:Skimpy thinks that all BC(P)s be converted to "escort CLACs" with a bare squadron of LACS for commerce protection.



If you want an escort CLAC, do what they did during WWII convert or purpose build on merchant hulls. Like what they did in WWII was have naval guard teams that were onboard merchants to maintain all of the guns onboard and operate the larger 3 and 5 inch guns and train the ships crew to operate the .50 cal and 20 mm guns. The Commencement Bay and Casablanca class CVE's used the hulls of Liberty and Victory ships. In the Honorverse you could do much the same thing.


Agreed. the GA is working on a bolt on LAC bay, but another solution is to convert a part of one of the holds for 2-8 LAC's
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by Sigs   » Tue May 03, 2016 7:07 pm

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My question is why does the Roland have to go? It gives you a lot of firepower for a small crew which would be perfect for commerce protection and commerce interdiction.

If you want a large DD with plenty of manpower design a Roland 2.0 with a little more room and possibility to disable some or all automation, in peacetime the crew is 150-200 in wartime is shrinks to 75.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by Daryl   » Tue May 03, 2016 10:51 pm

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Using a Roland in peace time is like putting a SAS or Navy Seal combatant into police uniform. Big reduction in petty crime, but expect new problems.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by Sigs   » Tue May 03, 2016 10:57 pm

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Daryl wrote:Using a Roland in peace time is like putting a SAS or Navy Seal combatant into police uniform. Big reduction in petty crime, but expect new problems.

How so? Getting a less capable but more crew intensive DD in service might solve some problems but creates a lot of other problems. In my view, Roland DD's have a place in the RMN but they should not be the one and only destroyer in service.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by The E   » Wed May 04, 2016 3:50 am

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Sigs wrote:
Daryl wrote:Using a Roland in peace time is like putting a SAS or Navy Seal combatant into police uniform. Big reduction in petty crime, but expect new problems.

How so? Getting a less capable but more crew intensive DD in service might solve some problems but creates a lot of other problems. In my view, Roland DD's have a place in the RMN but they should not be the one and only destroyer in service.


Definitely. The Rolands are still really good at a number of roles that aren't going to become irrelevant anytime soon; While the RMN does need something that can do what is essentially police work at some point in the future, the Rolands (transitional though they may be) are probably not going to be pulled from service quickly.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by darrell   » Wed May 04, 2016 4:20 am

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The E wrote:
Sigs wrote:How so? Getting a less capable but more crew intensive DD in service might solve some problems but creates a lot of other problems. In my view, Roland DD's have a place in the RMN but they should not be the one and only destroyer in service.


Definitely. The Rolands are still really good at a number of roles that aren't going to become irrelevant anytime soon; While the RMN does need something that can do what is essentially police work at some point in the future, the Rolands (transitional though they may be) are probably not going to be pulled from service quickly.


The Rolands are really good at some roles, so I don't see them disappearing soon.

They are horrible at other rolls, so I don't see a lot more of them built.

IMO their biggest advantage is to bring a lot of firepower to bear in a short engagement. Their disadvantages are a lack of ammunition storage and no marines.
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Re: Roland Peacetime duties
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed May 04, 2016 5:54 am

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darrell wrote:
Agreed. the GA is working on a bolt on LAC bay, but another solution is to convert a part of one of the holds for 2-8 LAC's



problem with this is docking the freighter and having the LAC bay and LAC viewed by those who have no right seeing the LAC. The Roland sits out in the system and has it's own hyperspace drive. A LAC is great but if it's ride gets seized it is going nowhere. Can't even call for help. A Roland makes a better, cheaper to hire, Escort.

SAS comment, SAS and special forces are the mercenary main fill units in most conflicts. They often work cheap because they like the work.

The civilian model of escort carried has a name in Weber honorverse, Honor's Wayfairer is a great ship but a Roland is still better and much cheaper from a manpower point of view. Roland is faster as well.

Roland can sit outside the hyper limit and observe its ships and is still in range of any actions taken against them. It may lack missile depth but with a tiny crew it can sit for month on station without a problem. Plus having a Roland waiting nearby will help speed up the escorted ships processings. Roland is like a Greyhound fast Pitbull wandering around outside a pizza parlor.

Escort Carrier is a peacetime option that makes sense a 100+ LAC CLAC just doesn't make sense in peacetime. 12 LAC and 6-8 assault shuttles with marines. A Mk23 armed Escort carrier can also sit outside the limit and express power and confidence. As a pod layer the Agamemnon is not worth Manty consideration. As a yatch design for the Royals it is pretty good. But as HoQ showed a dozen shrike would be invaluable in protecting the Queen.
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