Congratulations! The war is over! Now what?

Bill Woods wrote:The GA needs to be considerably more proactive than just sitting back and hoping the League will fall apart. But they know that, and that they don't have all that much time.

I don't believe I said or even implied that the GA should play "rope-a-dope." They just don't need to play "bull-in-a-china-shop" either.

The war with the Solarian League will be won or lost by diplomats and negotiators.

darrell wrote:With talbot and silesea, the SEM can easily increase their shipbuilding 10 fold, if not more.

Considering that the current production rate of the SEM is ZERO, I'm sure they can. Eventually. After they build shipyards. After they build the industrial base to build shipyards. After they train people in how to run this industrial gear and build ships. How long does that take, and why is it so much faster for them than someone who already has a modern industrial base and an existing trained workforce.

Jonathan_S wrote: But I agree streak drives, even once declassified and released for civilian uses, aren't going to get put in many merchants. If they can't make the econimics the of the current military hyperdrives work they're unlikely to spend even more to go faster yet.

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A Rising Thunder wrote: --- “Oh, it gets better, Father,” Benjamin said harshly. “I don’t know how much information McBryde actually handed Zilwicki and Cachat, or how much substantiation they’ve got for it, but they got one hell of a lot more than we’d want them to have! They’re talking about virus-based nanotech assassinations, the streak drive, and the spider drive, and they’re naming names about something called ‘the Mesan Alignment.’ In fact, they’re busy telling the Manty Parliament—and, I’m sure, the Havenite Congress and all the rest of the fucking galaxy!—all about the Mesan plan to conquer the known universe.

darrell wrote: The fact that the streak drive exists and mesa has it has been declassified, along with the spider drive. From what I understand simoens was theoretical, and it would take several months design work before the GA will have a working streak drive. I doubt that they could recreate the spider drive, since apparently simoens didn't work on it.

Kytheros wrote:I believe what Jonathan_S meant by declassifying the streak drive was not its existence, but rather, declassification of how it works, how to make and maintain one. That's probably going to be considered and stay a military secret for as long as both Manticore and the MAlign can keep it that way.

Not unlike the fact that Manticore has FTL communications, better inertial compensators, and MDMs. Sure, they're known to exist, but the details aren't public knowledge.

In my opinion, there's considerable advantage to releasing everything Simões has to say about the streak and spider drives. Some Sollie scientists will take an interest, and if they establish that the information checks out, that will go a ways to give credence to what he's also saying about the "Mesan Alignment". That'll help the GA win its PR campaign against the Mandarins.

Unlike FTL comm and other Mantie tech, the real bad guys already know how the drives work, so the risk of declassifying is not that great. It'll take Sollies years to go from lab-bench demonstrations to deployed ships.

Bill Woods wrote:In my opinion, there's considerable advantage to releasing everything Simões has to say about the streak and spider drives. Some Sollie scientists will take an interest, and if they establish that the information checks out, that will go a ways to give credence to what he's also saying about the "Mesan Alignment". That'll help the GA win its PR campaign against the Mandarins.

Unlike FTL comm and other Mantie tech, the real bad guys already know how the drives work, so the risk of declassifying is not that great. It'll take Sollies years to go from lab-bench demonstrations to deployed ships.

There's certainly something to be said for that argument. I still tend to think the Streak drive is a prize worth keeping from the SLN but maybe it's implimentation details don't need to be so protected as I originally assumed.
For one thing even if you withheld it from the League you could potentially use it as a carrot for systems looking to split off. And if you hold he mechanism secret after letting it be known that it's possible you run the risk that some R&D to replicate it does a Grayson and actually discovers yet a better way and leapfrog's past your Streak abilities.

Otoh during the post League destabilization, when there's a good chance you'll have to be providing more widespread anti piracy protections; or even offering temporary security guarantees to separatist systems to assuage their fears of warlordism, there's something to be said for keeping significantly higher strategic speed than many of the would be conquistadors. (Because the MAlign isn't likely to offer them that capability and would also need to keep if from being open,y displayed by their RF puppets lest they be revealed to be associated with the MAlign)

Still and all you raise an interesting point, thanks for giving me something to ponder.

I happily give up here. Too much time spent in this excellent forum. It would take days to explain to everybody the historical events of WW2. What will happen will happen with the HH future books. I look extremely forward to the next 2-3 titles.

Also too much hand waving? This is science fiction. Anything is possible. Will the Harrington plan work? We will see. Or will the GA just piss off the individual 1700 planets of the League? Not the league proper. Just 100,000 small new ships with planet killers?

My only concern is the DW might kill off more of our favorite characters. I would also like to see some more fusion of friends, not friends, comrades, associates and enemies all come together at the end of this tremendous literary series. Very anxious.

Weird Harold wrote:

Bill Woods wrote:The GA needs to be considerably more proactive than just sitting back and hoping the League will fall apart. But they know that, and that they don't have all that much time.

I don't believe I said or even implied that the GA should play "rope-a-dope."

Well, okay, but

Weird Harold wrote: The GA doesn't need to lay waste to SL Members it just needs to fend off the SLN long enough for the league to fall apart.

gave me that impression.

Weird Harold wrote: They just don't need to play "bull-in-a-china-shop" either.

The war with the Solarian League will be won or lost by diplomats and negotiators.

The GA's navy kicking the slats out of the SL's navy will help give their diplomats a strong bargaining position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv1MZMMdAfU

Bill Woods wrote:

Weird Harold wrote: They just don't need to play "bull-in-a-china-shop" either.

The war with the Solarian League will be won or lost by diplomats and negotiators.

The GA's navy kicking the slats out of the SL's navy will help give their diplomats a strong bargaining position.

The SLN will give the GA plenty of opportunity to demonstrate military supremacy without the need to go looking for trouble. If they go looking for trouble, they run the risk of hardening resistance by appearing to be the aggressor rather than defending themselves against the corrupt Mandarins and SLN.

Weird Harold wrote:

Bill Woods wrote:The GA's navy kicking the slats out of the SL's navy will help give their diplomats a strong bargaining position.

The SLN will give the GA plenty of opportunity to demonstrate military supremacy without the need to go looking for trouble. If they go looking for trouble, they run the risk of hardening resistance by appearing to be the aggressor rather than defending themselves against the corrupt Mandarins and SLN.

Quote: A Rising Thunder: “So, I repeat the question. Are we in agreement that we should authorize Admiral Kingsford’s commerce and infrastructure-raiding strategy?”
No one spoke. But then, slowly, one by one, heads nodded all around the table.


If they are smart and stick to commerce raiding only, the SL won't give "lots of opportunity" to harden resistance in the GA, nor will the GE be able to counter attack solarian targets.

HB of CJ wrote:I happily give up here. Too much time spent in this excellent forum. It would take days to explain to everybody the historical events of WW2. What will happen will happen with the HH future books. I look extremely forward to the next 2-3 titles.

And we keep trying to explain to you why that parallel does not apply
- The Grand Alliance is able to attack any point in the League; industrial production in the mainland US or deep within the Soviet Union was almost completely impossible for the Nazis or Imperial Japan to attack.
- The Grand Alliance has a technological edge to a British vs Zulus degree, not a Nazis/Japanese vs Americans/British/Soviets degree. They can currently take out wallers with cruisers.
- Although the League has a larger population and economy than the Grand Alliance, the Grand Alliance will have a larger active wall of battle when Haven's current construction is completed, and will maintain that edge indefinitely unless the League can construct multiple 'Boltholes' in complete secrecy and stick around long enough for them to begin churning out ships (and trained personnel).
- The League is deeply fractured internally, and facing large-scale secession (among member worlds) and rebellion (in the protectorates). It cannot concentrate solely on the Grand Alliance.
- The structure of the League makes it very, very difficult for it to raise money.
- The Grand Alliance is not made up of Nazis and Imperial Japanese. The average citizen of League knows very well that even if under some bizarre circumstance the Grand Alliance dropped an occupation force on Sol, it wouldn't be any more repressive than the League government and would be more competent.

drothgery wrote:- The Grand Alliance is not made up of Nazis and Imperial Japanese. The average citizen of League knows very well that even if under some bizarre circumstance the Grand Alliance dropped an occupation force on Sol, it wouldn't be any more repressive than the League government and would be more competent.

No they don't. Why would they possibly think that? Remember how the the average SLN member knows very little about the RNM/RHN? It's even worse for the bulk of the SL population. That's because the the SL is very focused on itself, and the MA has effective control of the media on the SL to ensure they report events with the right spin.

The average SL citizen thinks they are neobarbs who will indulge in all the fun things that they you would expect that savages with heavy weapons will. The snuff films produced on Torch didn't help.