Roland Peacetime duties

Will the Roland / Mk16 mounting ships rewrite the peacetime duties of the various ship classes?

Traditionally there were LAC for system use, and Forts. This has been changed to LAC and Smaller Forts with System Pods.

Destroyers, Tin Cans, were used as escort ships but also sent out to patrol areas. They had enough crew to inspect other ships and harass Pirates. Scouting duties and the like.

The Roland makes a great escort but it doesn't have the crew for inspections. Nor does it have brig facilities for pirates.

Will the Saganami C+ take over this role? One Heavy Cruiser with Destroyer crew levels of old and Battle cruiser Fighting capabilities.

The Nike is the new SD Kingpin. Not so much for the wall of battle the SDP rules there, but for projecting force levels everywhere and anywhere. Fast as the much smaller ships of old, as much firepower of the Battleship Dreadnaught or SD.

The CLAC with the Modern LAC carries the size and power of a task force of older ships. Still individually weak, but with a swarm of Piranha like ships that can swarm pretty much anything. Perhaps the CLAC will be the new special ops ship.

That leaves the Roland. Escort duty and maybe hit and run raiders. The Roland doesn't even make a good pirate or marquis ship as it lacks cargo room. It can escort Freighters and passenger ships. Small crews with large ships and enough size and firepower to dissuade any raiders who know what it can do. Hyper capable and small enough that it doesn't tie up resources, mainly crew that may be needed elsewhere. Perhaps hyper capable system patrol ships too, although a Nat Turner might be better used in that function.

Is the Roland the Escort ship we have all been looking for?

The Roland is a transitionary vessel. Maybe even the last of a class on the border of extinction, because the crew is to small to fulfill all the jobs the former DDs did in peacetime. It is a fantastic wartime warship - fast, highly effective and with a surprisingly heavy punch over a big range - but that's all.

In peacetime, you need vessels with more warm bodies than a Roland can support; so the smallest class of hyper capable vessels in the future of the Honorverse (at least regarding the RMN) are probably Light Cruisers, with something around 300.000 to 350.000 tons and at least a crew of 150 (including 50 Marines for boarding and inspection).

By the way, The Saganami-C is a transitionary class, too. Regarding the traditional mass differences between CAs and BCs, I expect, that the Next-Generation-CA will mass around as much as an old Reliant-Flight-II-BC like Honor's NIKE. (900.000 tons? more or less, at least)

For me I think the Roland will remain and destoyers will stay focussed on Fleet duites, Scouting, escorts fleet actions, light task group work.

The tasks traditionally assigned to destroyers in Cannon (and assigned to Frigates back in the dawn of time) Will be assumed by a slightly larger ship initially called a light cruiser. This ship has less raw firepower by tonnage but has a larger crew and more endurance and space for all the peacetime pirate squashing, ambassador carrying tasks that don't call for a capital ship.

Heavy cruisers and above are overkill in nearly all the roles listed above and will probably continue to see use if only for cost reasons. They give a good ammount of firepower and are great for gunboat diplomacy where a full capital ship (BC and up) is overkill in both a physical and diplomatic sense. Like the Roland will be optimised for war fighting but has more capacity for independant action on the ground as shown by and the Hexapuma even if not optimised for that role.

A Roland offers the smallest MDM platform, it offers the biggest punch for the crew size and it can due to size and tiny crew offer extended on site time and duration. Basically a Roland can do any mission that doesn't involve boarding or prisoner taking. Spy, no problem. Scouting same thing, Escort it is perfect. It is fast enough to be anywhere asap. It is a sniper rifle armed cheetah riding shotgun. Anything it can't do a Saganami can and with large enough numbers of Saganami CA in peacetime there is no reason not to use overkill to do a job. The biggest cost for CA use was manpower numbers. The new systems eliminate that one constraint. It also mandates that crew number requiring jobs be done by larger ships.

I could see the Kammerling CL being replaced, due to its small numbers, with Nike BC's. There never have been large enough numbers of such ships that a Nike couldn't assume such a job description and even be better at it.

The BCP in Manticore service has failed, but would be a great platform for other duties. I still suggest converting it from pod duties to escort LAC duties. Even using the rear doors with 12-20 LAC, unlike the more fragile CLAC, an Escort BC(LAC) or EBCL would offer more especially with special forces duties and ambassador high value target transportation. Might require mounting CLAC like Nose Mk16 or Mk23 tubes. Say a Full Roland armament on one point. And 12+ LAC. Could even carry ground support troops etc... Removing such tasks from the Nike.

Still the Roland would still be able to offer security scouting and Escort of civilians without high crew costs.

A Roland would be a prime target ship for a streak drive.

Silverwall wrote:For me I think the Roland will remain and destoyers will stay focussed on Fleet duites, Scouting, escorts fleet actions, light task group work.

The tasks traditionally assigned to destroyers in Cannon (and assigned to Frigates back in the dawn of time) Will be assumed by a slightly larger ship initially called a light cruiser. This ship has less raw firepower by tonnage but has a larger crew and more endurance and space for all the peacetime pirate squashing, ambassador carrying tasks that don't call for a capital ship.

Heavy cruisers and above are overkill in nearly all the roles listed above and will probably continue to see use if only for cost reasons. They give a good ammount of firepower and are great for gunboat diplomacy where a full capital ship (BC and up) is overkill in both a physical and diplomatic sense. Like the Roland will be optimised for war fighting but has more capacity for independant action on the ground as shown by and the Hexapuma even if not optimised for that role.

If it was me, here is how I would do it:

I like the Nike with 25 missile tubes, 7,000 missile storage 12 grasers and keyhole 1.

The roland B: at 200K tons is 12 tons bigger to allow space for a squad of marines, but with few if any other changes. Most of the time they will operate in squadron level operations. (such as saltash)

New heavy cruiser with 12 missile tubes, 6 grasers and 1,800 missile storage. it has double a Roland offensive punch, but half the punch of a nike. It also has 1/4 the nike's ammunition storage, while 4 times that of the new cruiser or 1/8 that of the Roland. Like the new cruiser it also has a platoon of marines. It should be between 1/4 and 1/3 the tonnage of a Nike, which would put it between 630K-840K tons.

New light cruiser: Offensively similar to the rolands and using the same technology, it has twice the missile storage, longer cruising range and a platoon of marines. It has the same number of Mk-16 tubes as the roland, but is designed to operate independently. It will also be built in larger numbers than rolands so that eventually there will be 2-3 times more cruisers than destroyers. I am guessing that the tonnage would be about 250K tons.

IIRC the Roland has a flag deck for when it is used for Flotilla Command functions, there have been many suggestions in the past that the flag deck be converted for RM personnel use to overcome the shortage of manpower for anti-pirate duties.

That would still leave the problem of not enough RMN personnel to provide prize/relief crews.

As it currently is the Roland would only be suitable as a scout or screen and for escort duties

Or you could go with my idea for the Clan class patrol destroyer. Which is like the Roland class but has four fewer missile launchers and trades the space now available for two squads (27) of marines.

saber964 wrote:Or you could go with my idea for the Clan class patrol destroyer. Which is like the Roland class but has four fewer missile launchers and trades the space now available for two squads (27) of marines.

Unless the marines are trained for on-ship duties thus allowing for navy types to be relieved for off-ship duties, whatever is done to make space for the marines there is still the lack of navy types for prize/relief crews.

Due to limitation the Roland should probably be given over to Freighter Escort. Crew size and needs defined the previous generation of ship designs. With the new smaller crews the Saganami will become the new workhorse of the fleet, particularly in peace. Similar crew size to the old tin can and with BC capabilities. Enough crew for marines and prize crews. Fast enough to catch just about anyone and powerful enough to hold a system versus any non major players.

Think of what Honor could have done with a Saganami C in Grayson space. Or on Basilisk Station. In A Roland she couldn't have done any of that. Not enough crew to draw upon. In Peace time no ship should be larger than a Nike and only a few per sector. Kept to provide System government and planetary assualt. The redesigned Agamemnon escort carrier offers everything a Governor or Prince or Queen/Empress needs in a ship.

Ultimately the Roland with be the civilian freighter escort. It just doesn't have the crew for interdiction or patrol. A Hyper capable Heavy LAC. It puts missiles in a region and tells anyone who attacks anything in the region to run away. It is a missile boat and takes no prisoners.

I would love to replace every ship with an Agamemnon Escort Carrier, and or a Nike. It would be a great option. Bit far fetched but ideal. As it is a Saganami C can do 95% of what a Nike can do in peacetime. So go with that instead.

Lord Skimper wrote:Due to limitation the Roland should probably be given over to Freighter Escort. Crew size and needs defined the previous generation of ship designs. With the new smaller crews the Saganami will become the new workhorse of the fleet, particularly in peace. Similar crew size to the old tin can and with BC capabilities. Enough crew for marines and prize crews. Fast enough to catch just about anyone and powerful enough to hold a system versus any non major players.

Think of what Honor could have done with a Saganami C in Grayson space. Or on Basilisk Station. In A Roland she couldn't have done any of that. Not enough crew to draw upon. In Peace time no ship should be larger than a Nike and only a few per sector. Kept to provide System government and planetary assualt. The redesigned Agamemnon escort carrier offers everything a Governor or Prince or Queen/Empress needs in a ship.

Ultimately the Roland with be the civilian freighter escort. It just doesn't have the crew for interdiction or patrol. A Hyper capable Heavy LAC. It puts missiles in a region and tells anyone who attacks anything in the region to run away. It is a missile boat and takes no prisoners.

I would love to replace every ship with an Agamemnon Escort Carrier, and or a Nike. It would be a great option. Bit far fetched but ideal. As it is a Saganami C can do 95% of what a Nike can do in peacetime. So go with that instead.

Isn't Agamemnon a BC or am I mistaking?